Engaging Your Storm: The Power of Strengths and Engagement in Education

Jim Collison:
[0:00] I am Jim Collison, and this is Gallup's Called to Coach, recorded on March 6, 2025. Called to Coach is a resource for those who want to help others discover and use their strengths. We have Gallup experts and Gallup-Certified Strengths Coaches share tactics, insights and strategies to help coaches maximize the talent of individuals, teams and organizations around the world. If you're listening live, we'd love to have you in our chat room. Or if you're listening to the podcast audio or YouTube video after the fact, you can always send us an email: coaching@gallup.com. Don't forget to subscribe on your favorite podcast app or there on YouTube — hit the Subscribe button — so you never miss an episode. Emily Behling is our host today. Emily is a Senior Education Consultant here at Gallup and specializes in helping education leaders leverage data-driven insights to create strengths-based, engaged and high-performing cultures. Emily's Top 5 is Achiever, Positivity, Communication, Relator and Learner. And Emily, as always, it's great to have you on Called to Coach. Welcome!

Emily Behling:
[0:58] Yeah, thanks so much, Jim. Really excited to be here and so excited to have Ted joining us today. It's a real pleasure to have you here, Ted. So I just want to give a quick introduction. Ted Neitzke is the CEO of CESA 6 and the mayor of Port Washington, Wisconsin. Ted is a lifetime educator and has served high levels of leadership in the United States. Those who know Ted would say he has great energy, creativity, humor and a passion for learning and leadership. Ted's Top 5 strengths are Strategic, Futuristic, Activator, Positivity and Learner. So thanks so much for being here, Ted. And I know there's a lot more to your leadership story than what I just shared. So I know the listeners would love to learn a little bit more about you and your leadership journey.

Ted Neitzke:
[1:47] Yeah. Well, thank you. And thanks for having me on. This is fantastic. And yeah, like, pointing out my Top 5 there has allowed me to go, you know, some pretty cool places in my career and life, because I started out as a classroom teacher in a small rural school system here in Wisconsin and worked my way into levels of leadership there, you know, just because of really those 5 strengths — actually, my whole 34, knowing when and where to use them. But yeah, that's been my opportunity here now as CEO of CESA 6 and, you know, really engaging in the work of, you know, what Gallup helps us with and helps us get better with. So pretty fortunate to use all of these tools as a guide for our mindsets and our strategies.

Emily Behling:
[2:31] Yeah, absolutely. And I know we'll hear your strengths come into play a little bit more today, but for those listening who might not be in the world of education, can you tell us a little bit more about CESA 6 and explain the role that it plays in Wisconsin's education system?

Ted Neitzke:
[2:48] Yeah. So in the United States, every state has some version of what we do. So CESA stands for Cooperative Education Service Agency. There are 12 of them here in the state of Wisconsin, and we are No. 6. We basically serve the central part of the state of Wisconsin, overseeing the support of 39 public school systems and all school systems that will — have needs or will work with us, both private and public. We are publicly overseen, but we're a private entity, if that makes any sense. So we're entrepreneurial. We're not funded by the government or the state or local taxes. We create contracts and services for school systems. So anything you would do in a school district, from strategic planning to teaching to staffing, all the way to like OT-PT services, right on up to specifically working with school systems on everything from referendum support to selling their school system to marketing, finances, payroll — we do it all. And we're, like I said, we're about a $40 million a year entrepreneurial corporation. And we run alternative schools, and we support student learning and do all of that fun stuff for school systems in our region.

Emily Behling:
[4:04] Yeah, absolutely. And maybe you can tell us, too, I feel like CESA 6 has such a unique mission, but then I also love your values. I know our title today is Engaging Your Storm. So can you tell us a little bit more about what it means to be a "Buffalo Leader" and some of the values that you all really strive towards?

Ted Neitzke:
[4:24] Yeah. So thank you for that. So if you look at our, or you look up our company, and you see our logo, it's a paper airplane. And we did a market analysis a few years ago with all of our customers and clients. And the one thing that kept coming up was that we were fun and engaging. And we thought, you know what? Our logo should reflect that. So, like, while most education corporations have an apple or children and teachers, we're like, well, what's the fun side of school? Paper airplanes. So we were like, that's what we want to be known for. And we wanted to be able to also represent that we were fast-moving, innovative and supportive of their systems.

Ted Neitzke:
[5:05] One of our core values, our No. 1 core value, is to provide Buffalo Leadership. And that's really where I was able to kind of launch into my ability to support school systems around the country and businesses around the country with that mindset. And the Buffalo mindset is very simply this. It's an indigenous story that's been passed on for generations. And what it is, is that the American bison or buffalo does a very cool behavior. And that is very simply that it challenges the storms that it faces. So when a buffalo is out on the plains and it hears thunder, it will turn its body and face the storm. And this is such a powerful metaphor for leaders and people that we just really captured it. It encapsulates who I am as a human being. And what it is, is basically thunder — turn and face; lightning — energized; storm — run. And that's what the bison does, because it has learned that the fastest way through the storm is actually into it, because those two energies going in opposite directions leads the buffalo to sunshine and starry nights quicker.

Ted Neitzke:
[6:11] Now, the inverse of that is the cow. And the cow, right, like it hears thunder and it's like, "Moo — I don't know what I'm going to do!" And it turns away from the storm it's facing. And yes, you just did hear the CEO of a company moo, but that's free. And it turns away from the storm it's facing, and it ignores it, but it always catches it. So what we want to do as an organization is we want to work with our, first, our staff to make sure we've got a highly engaged environment that's strengths-based, that uses those strengths to then face those challenges that we have and go to them proactively and optimistically. And that leads us to having a really cool culture where, you know, it's almost, I always tell people when I'm coaching them that when people respond to you sarcastically with your quips and quotes, you know it's sticking, right?

Ted Neitzke:
[7:04] So, like, when a problem emerges here, people will say, "I suppose we have to charge into our storm." And everybody just looks and says, "Yes. Now let's get to it." So that's where that comes from. And that's, that is our No. 1 core value is Buffalo Leadership. And we fuel that by, you know, taking on any problems that we're facing for, you know, the kids in the schools that we support, because our core purpose is to empower children together. And our mission is to provide the solutions for the, you know, our, our customers immediately, so that they can do that.

Emily Behling:
[7:35] Yeah. I love that, Ted. And I think, like what you said, it's so unique, the culture that you've created at CESA 6. And for those listening, you might not know what the Gallup Exceptional Workplace Award is, but it's our most prestigious honor that our clients are in the highest percentile of engagement. And CESA 6 has won this award three times. So I think that's really a true testament to the culture that you've created, Ted, and the principles that all of your staff follow. So that gives us a great segue. We'd love to hear a little bit more about when CESA 6 as an organization first started focusing on employee engagement.

Ted Neitzke:
[8:12] Yeah. So it was about 9 years ago, maybe 10 years ago now. It was right before I arrived. And I had been the superintendent of schools in a pretty large system in Wisconsin. And we used the Q¹² with our employees because we wanted to find a proactive way to position ourselves to be able to respond to retention, wellbeing, workplace satisfaction. And it's just a phenomenal tool for that. When I came here, they had just done the survey and hovered right below the national average.

Ted Neitzke:
[8:47] And one of my key learnings in the evolution of my own leadership was the importance of people. I didn't always believe that, because that really, for me personally, I wasn't really motivated by, like, I don't, my Significance is really low on my strengths. I didn't, I didn't need to be told I was doing a good job. I was just kind of intrinsically driven. And I kind of looked past that for a lot of people. When we got here, and we had seen that, whoa, they're below the national average, we decided, we are going to focus on the people, so that we can deliver our mission at really extraordinarily high levels of both engagement and empowerment.

Ted Neitzke:
[9:23] So we began that journey, and we began to focus on it, and we started to measure it and we started to work it. And we doubled it, and then we put ourselves in a really, really high position. And now we're at a 48:1 ratio of engaged to actively disengaged. And, you know, that puts us in the top, top tier of the world. And we're really excited about that, because everything we have done since then has been a lagging indicator of that engagement. So as our engagement went up, so too did other things. So what we started to see was, like, suddenly, like our profitability went up, our retention of staff, our attraction of, our attraction of quality candidates and our whole candidate pool started to change. So it was significant for us, and it's been a wonderful journey because the shift away for us was in the concept that, like, no individual owns engagement; that it's every manager in the organization. And that once people really began to realize, like, oh, our one-on-one strategies or our, you know, intentional celebrations of failure, like, that has all added into some really, really great things. And now we're replicating that and supporting other organizations to be able to do that.

Jim Collison:
[10:38] Let me jump in real quick. Ted, what's that first year look like, from an engagement standpoint? You're taking a chance on asking some questions that, for some folks, can get very uncomfortable. As you approached those first year or two, as you think back to that, what was the key to success to get it going? I mean, obviously, you've been doing it a while now, but with that first year, what did you learn in that first year?

Ted Neitzke:
[11:03] Jim, that's a really, really good question. And I would tell anyone who's about to begin that journey or who is on the journey and has just flatlined their results, what we learned, first of all, was that the majority of people saw an engagement survey as a satisfaction survey. And engagement and satisfaction are not the same. Engagement is, Do I have what I need to be successful? And satisfaction is, Do I like what I have? And we had to actually do professional development and bring back to the staff, like we brought back, using all the Gallup tools, like Q01 — I understand what's expected of me at work. And we actually trained around, like, This is what this is measuring. And then people could actually give really good quantitative feedback of, Well, here's what I would need in order to be that. So then we could break into small teams with each project or each microculture and say, like, OK, this is what needs to be provided.

Ted Neitzke:
[11:59] So for instance, one of the things that we really learned about was feedback. And everyone was thinking the only feed, you know, like when they took the, when they took the engagement survey, when they took the Q¹², for feedback, they would look at it just from the CEO. And, like, we've got a tiered level here of, like, 13 levels of our hierarchy. And I, I'm not a hierarchical person, but like, I don't jump in and talk to people who are, like, on-the-road consultants and tell them they're doing a good job. What we had to actually do, and then I actually, when I launched my podcast, I did this whole conversation around, like, start to look for feedback. Don't wait for feedback. And it just changed the mindset.

Ted Neitzke:
[12:40] Best friend at work, right? That's one that everybody always talks about, like, you know, Do I really have a best friend at work? Well, once we started to talk about, like, Hey, a Best friend at work is somebody that you can rely on, you can confide in, that you'll go to, you know, if you need something immediately, like, do you have that? And we saw, like, an immediate pop the next year. Like, once people understood what it was looking for, you know, we shot up — and we didn't double, but, you know, we went up. And then what we did every year was we took kind of the lowest three. And then we kind of hyperfocused on drilling into the staff doing SWOT analysis processes and asking like, OK, so on this Q, like Q08, you know, what are we doing well? What's our opportunity? What's our weakness? What are the threats? And then we designed strategies that we employed with energy and fidelity. And once people started to see like, Hey, my team's whole mindset has changed as a result of us focusing on them, then we started to see everything else go up. So that first year was a really wonderful kind of baseline learning lesson.

Ted Neitzke:
[13:48] And I always tell people, the other thing, when you focus on engagement and then supercharge it with strengths is you have to recognize that you have to be patient. Nobody goes from, like, here to here on engagement. And if they do, they're not, it's not for the right reasons. What you will get is you'll get this kind of slow line. And then, all of a sudden, it just rapidly starts to move up, because it takes time for people to recognize, like, your care and concern for them as a person is changing; that the organization is paying attention to people. And we learned a lot.

Ted Neitzke:
[14:25] Like, one of our values used to be "our people." And it always drove me nuts, because every organization I go in have values "their people." And we went on a strategic retreat about 5 years ago as an executive team. And we had a conversation about, like, I brought up, I'm like, "I don't like this. There's no value in our people. I want to love our people." And I inserted that word. And I bet you for 2 hours, there was a literal fight about the word "love." How are we going to love our people? What does that mean? I'm like, "What?" And we went through and then we defined it. And then we went back and said, every decision we make has to demonstrate that we love our people. And then it has to, it has to be measured by that engagement document and survey.

Ted Neitzke:
[15:11] And once we started to look at, like, the dumb practices we had for say, like, emergency leave, right? So if someone, when we love our people, that means we put their family first — however they define that, whether that be, you know, in the, in the traditional sense; whether that be with their extended family, their neighbors, their friends. I don't care. Because if we love them, we'll love who they love. And the idea of the walk of shame down to HR to say like, "Hey, my neighbor's stepdad's son passed away. Can I use a day for that of bereavement?" And then to have the HR person to have to call the manager to say, "Well, you have to deny that." Stupid. How can you be engaged if you're worried about caring about someone you love, while we're not demonstrating that to you? So that's what came out of that first year was just, like, this intense commonsense approach to their engagement.

Ted Neitzke:
[16:07] And the other thing I would say is that if your organization, if the highest level, if the highest-level leader is not the strongest advocate for engagement, you just won't get there.

Jim Collison:
[16:22] Emily, let me toss it back to you.

Emily Behling:
[16:24] Yeah, no, I love that, Ted. I think it all starts too at the leadership level and modeling those behaviors of engagement like I know you do. So I know you talked quite a bit about some of the things that you're working on for CESA 6 to improve engagement, but how did you start expanding your work to the school districts in Wisconsin that you partner with now?

Ted Neitzke:
[16:44] Yeah, that's a great question. So as soon as our little Gallup award-winning banner went up, all of a sudden, the people who come in and out of our agency for support and training started to ask questions like, "Well, what does that mean? And what does it do?" And I would say like, "Well, don't ask me. Ask her. She's the reception at the front desk," or "He's the director of this." And one of the things that we do is we do something called the Smart Thinking Retreat, where we bring together school leadership teams every summer. And they come from all over the Midwest. And we laid out a challenge a few years ago, which was, the first school district in this room who focuses on engagement and starts to get results will also be the first district to break the horrible cycle of, like, our school really never changes.

Ted Neitzke:
[17:36] And there were a handful of superintendents in the room who were like, "Challenge accepted!" And now what we've started to see in those districts is wonderful. You know, like, for instance, CESA 6 is located in Oshkosh, Wisconsin, home of the world's largest air show and the EAA. So there's lots of really cool confluences. We have a university, and we've got a really great school district here that's pretty large. And their superintendent and their school board said, We want a proactive way to measure what's going on with our staff so that we're not in a reactive place. And we introduced Gallup. They launched it. And if I'm not mistaken, like they were at over 50% this year for engaged staff. So they are already starting to see this happen. And their superintendent talks about the lagging pull or drag that comes with the other data is, like, their reading results are starting to improve. Their student attendance is starting to increase. Because a highly engaged teacher will create that type of an environment. An engaged principal will create an engaged school.

Ted Neitzke:
[18:43] So then other systems around us started to do the same thing — smaller rural systems, mid-sized suburban systems. And they just began to really focus on those Q¹²s and focusing really specifically on ensuring that they were making certain that staff was being recognized, that staff had opportunities to provide feedback, that they were demonstrating care and concern. And they were doing it twice a year, so they could launch goals in the middle of the year and go from there. So it's really cool, like Kaukauna School District up in the middle north of the part of the state of Wisconsin, you know, gets a new superintendent. His leadership team adopts the principles of engagement. They then start moving into strengths. And it's just transforming their culture, to the point where that was a school system that really struggled with community engagement. Well, once they began to enjoy staff engagement and a focus on the staff, well they go out for a referendum, and they get a $100+ million referendum passed from the community to build a new middle school, and everybody's now moving in the same direction. And that's driven by teachers, maintenance men and women, office staff and support staff all feeling a level of engagement and empowerment that's transforming their system.

Ted Neitzke:
[20:06] So we work with a bunch of school districts across the state. Everywhere we go and we design and develop strategic plans, we put in there a Key Performance Indicator of measuring that staff, and then student engagement, to ensure that they can proactively position themselves to charge in the storms that they're facing.

Emily Behling:
[20:25] Yeah. I love that connection, too, Ted, that you made to the teachers and staff and students, because obviously we know that teacher engagement is directly attributed to student engagement. And it hasn't been easy to be a teacher these last 5 years, especially with the pandemic and remote learning and some of those challenges. So when you think about the districts that you have partnered with, where do you feel like they've struggled the most when you think about the Q¹²? And where do you feel like districts are doing a really good job of engaging their teachers and staff?

Ted Neitzke:
[20:54] Yeah, what a great question. So the first struggle I think that the schools have is the exact same struggle that all employers have. And that is the same thing that I enjoyed the first year we did it, which is a misperception of what the intent of engagement is — Do you have what you need in order to be successful? And I think the struggle is, and I believe this in my heart, there are three things that only I can decide for myself: my happiness, my mindset and my engagement. Because engagement is a choice. I choose to be engaged. Now, a leader can create all of the things, right? Food trucks and Ferris wheels and free coffee days. That's not engagement, right? That's satisfaction, motivation, but engagement is, Do I use all of those things to actively participate in solving the problems of my own environment?

Ted Neitzke:
[21:49] And that's where the struggle in education, I think, is very similar to healthcare, is very similar to manufacturing, is very similar to all industries, is that that initial realization that this isn't about giving stuff to people that might be extrinsically motivated by a taco truck; this is about providing the environment so that people can intentionally and purposefully opt into those areas of engagement. Like, if I'm not getting enough feedback, am I giving enough feedback? I learned that from Tim Hodges, right? Like what, what am I doing here locally? And then, again, like I said, what the schools start to see is this evolution of, like, moving away from a "Woe is me!" mindset to a, like, "Well, I don't like this, but I need to be in a position to share solutions and strategies."

Ted Neitzke:
[22:45] And when we do, like, our culture of continuous improvement certification program here, we always say that the 7th principle of improvement — there are seven of them. No. 7 is, "Fix what's bothering you." In a highly engaged environment, people know, they understand their permissions. They know their lanes. There are standard operating procedures that they've helped build and that they live by. And at the end of the day, they will fix what's bothering them. It's the disengaged and the actively disengaged that prefer to be a cow and, like, cast blame and do the, like, "Oh, dark clouds always follow me wherever I go," or "I'm counting off the, you know, bad thing happens, so the, two more bad things are going to happen."

Ted Neitzke:
[23:29] In an engaged environment, what you'll see in a school is that the staff will collegially coach each other, they'll hold each other accountable, and they will be solution-mindsetted. And again, it all comes down to, Did they choose to see the world through that lens of engagement, or are they still waiting around for everyone to satisfy them (which is an impossible task)? Impossible.

Emily Behling:
[23:53] Yeah, I totally —I think engagement is a mindset, and everyone plays a role in engagement — teachers, staff, like you said, support staff, bus drivers, food, nutrition staff. It's a whole team effort. And I think that's what makes engagement so special and unique. So I know we've talked a lot —

Ted Neitzke:
[24:14] Yeah. Let me just insert something. The language of leadership matters, when it comes to just being a leader and then focusing on engagement. And what does the leader say? What does she do? How do they act, right? So are you predictable? And my father-in-law taught me something when I was a young man, when I was dating my now wife, his daughter. And he would say things like, my starter would break on my car when I was in college, and I'm broke, I have no money, right? And I'm parking my four-speed Ford Escort on a hill so I can pop the clutch and drive away. And he had asked me one day, he's like, "Why are you parking the car, like, down the road up on the hill there?" And I told him, "Well, my starter popped out." And my father-in-law was a very well-to-do man. Like, he could have reached in his wallet and given me the $70 for a new starter. And all he said to me was, "Oh, what a great problem! I mean, you still have a car." And it just, like, it framed everything.

Ted Neitzke:
[25:13] So, like, in an engagement mindset, like, our staff, my colleagues will now say back to me, like, "What a great problem!" When we have a, when we have a, when we do have a problem, when we need to lean toward solution, nobody questions each other. They say, they use the language like, "Well, I have a wondering." And it's a soft way to enter into these candid conversations. And that's what engagement's all about. It's about confronting disengaged, actively confronting and moving actively disengaged, like, organizational saboteurs out, and then creating the conditions that it is very safe to choose engagement, because in most organizations, it's very acceptable to be miserable. And if you try to counter that, it's pretty tough. And when you walk into a truly engaged environment, it is, it's just energizing. It's refreshing. And people say things here, like, you know, "If I have a bad day here, I kind of chose that. And I'm blessed."

Emily Behling:
[26:12] Yeah. And going back to those candid conversations, too, I hear your Positivity. When you're talking about just the importance of having a positive mindset and taking things by storm. So can you talk more about CESA 6's strengths-based culture and the work that you've all done? You have 60 Certified Strengths Coaches now within your organization, so I think that has played a huge role in engagement too, and that growth mindset. So can you share a little bit more about the work that you all are doing with strengths?

Ted Neitzke:
[26:42] Yeah. So the journey started when — in our second year on the engagement piece, what we did was we instituted a one-on-one process that every employee was coached in a one-on-one. So, like, I coach my chief suite; the chiefs coach their executive directors; the executive directors coach the directors; the directors coach their, you know, it goes all the way down. And everybody from a limited-term employee all the way up to me is coached, so that they have that opportunity. Well, the first year we hit the engagement bell, and we were, like, Whoa, we qualified to be a global workplace. I had a little anxiety attack. I've coached my whole life — soccer, varsity soccer, I've played. I had never won a championship, ever, at any level. And now all of a sudden, like we win this engagement championship. And I realized like, Oh, this is why the best are not satisfied. Because, like, I suddenly went to, we only have two places to go here — up or down. And it was a lot of work to get here.

Ted Neitzke:
[27:50] So we started to really reflect in the second year of winning the award, the second time, like, What are we going to do different in those one-on-ones? And that's when we started to lean back into, OK, we got real about engagement. Now let's get real about strengths and using the CliftonStrengths. So I've had my 34 report for years. I run around, you know, like, well, you know, I lead with this, and these are my stackable strengths. And I've been a coach for quite a while. And then it was like, OK, we hired a new Chief People Officer who we brought in intentionally, because she had had experience in the Gallup world. And that's when we started to have the conversation with Rochelle and I of, like, OK, let's supercharge this by getting the highest level of the organization strengths-coached. And then let's, I hate to use the word "mandate," but let's mandate this as part of our culture.

Ted Neitzke:
[28:43] And last year we launched into that, and it has fundamentally accelerated. And I honestly think last year we had the most changes ever in our organization, and we actually expected to see our engagement go down — and it held. And I think what the delta was, the gap that we were able to close, was because we had moved to strengths coaching and seeing people for what they brought to the organization instead of seeing maybe their soft strengths or weaknesses as deficits, as opportunities. So now that's the language of the whole organization. And it has been awesome. It is awesome.

Jim Collison:
[29:21] Let me, Emily, I'll jump in really quick on this, because I get to see those coaches come through the system when they certify or recertify. And so I see that email address all the time come through. At one point, I was even like, "What is" — I felt it. Like, "What is going on that all these Certified Coaches are coming through the system?" So it was super cool to see that. Ted, for you, can you feel, like, do you feel sometimes when the strengths kick in — when people are really embracing it, it's really working, they're really naming, not just naming and claiming, but really aiming it — from an organizational standpoint, can you feel that? And what does that feel like?

Ted Neitzke:
[30:05] OK. It feels like riding a unicorn into the sunset. I mean, Jim, it feels amazing. And this is why: Strengths give you permission to be authentic. And being authentic in work is really hard, because you're usually trying to move yourself to a narrative that you've created in your own head about what the other people think or expect of you. And when you move to a strengths-based organization, as long as no one weaponizes their strengths, which is a cautionary tale, what happens is you start out every meeting by saying, like, "I'm bringing this to you. And I want you to remember that I'm operating in my strengths. So let's review who I am. No. 1, Strategic; No. 2, Strat — or Futuristic, 3, Activator. So I envision something, I get the strategy put in place in my head, and I move. Well, when you've got a complicated organization, I'm kind of a dangerous leader.

Ted Neitzke:
[31:04] So what'll happen now is — and I just did it on Monday. I stood in front of all of our executive leaders. So we had a room of about 40-some people. And I started out by saying, "I'm operating in my strengths as I'm discussing this." I reviewed my strengths, and I shared with them, " Now, please don't go into my lower 34 here and ask for details, the process to be perfect, for, or for me to consider, like, how disruptive this is for you. I don't default to that when I think, so please give me grace." And then I laid it out there. And what happened was as I laid it out there, I saw this happen. OK. Cause he's just big ideaing right now. And he's going to come to us later for like, "And now you guys fill in the gap, You execute on my vision. You influence me with the vision."

Ted Neitzke:
[31:54] And what's beautiful is, every meeting we do now, we end it with a recognition of how we saw people operate in their strengths. When I'm in a meeting with others — and I know my teams do it as well — when conflict emerges, it's one of two things. No. 1, it's a conflict of strengths, or 2, it's a conflict of values, usually being fueled by their strength. So now, when I'm in a meeting and I say something like, "Oh, by 2036, I want 50% of our new revenue to be X." And then I get the little hand up from my little purple friend over there, my little Executing buddy, who's like, "Can you tell me when and how and where and what time the plane leaves?" And then I start to feel my blood come up to my brain. Now it doesn't happen because I'll say, "I really appreciate that you're moving into execution skills, and that you're really being Deliberative and Disciplined on this. But I want you to recognize I am going to delegate that to you. And I want you to come back and tell me how you think you could get here." Where before I would feel like I had to do it all, and then I'd be frustrated, et cetera.

Ted Neitzke:
[33:03] And I know I'm just putting it on myself because I hear that in my one-on-ones with my executive team. I love it when people come in, and they complain about communication. And then I look at their strengths profile, and I'm like, well, almost all of yours are Woo and Communication and Activator. So like, yeah, that's what you would be demanding, because that's how you view the world. So help me. And it just, again, it helps us all be authentic. And when you can be authentic, you can choose engagement easier. So I hope that answers the question, because I think I could talk about that point for 5 hours.

Jim Collison:
[33:39] Yeah, no, I love that. And just yesterday, Emily and I, as we were prepping for this, we got together to test the studio in D.C. there and just kind of chat. She says to me, "Well, I'm going to definitely lean into my Positivity and Communication tomorrow as we're doing this." And that's what I hear you saying in culture, right? The cultures, a lot of folks ask me the question, "How do you know? Like, how do we know we're a strengths-based culture?" There's a lot of different ways, but you're certainly focusing on one of those, which is, Are we saying the words? Are people being recognized for those things that they do? And even more so, are they being delegated to for those things? Like you said, like, are we intentionally shifting work in ways to say, "Hey, look, I'm not really that good at this. I'm going to be need your help. Are you on or are you not?"

Ted Neitzke:
[34:29] Yeah. And we also, because we're educators, you know, by nature, almost all of us have Learner high. And, and Activator is usually up in our, our, everybody's kind of Top 15. We, we make it fun. So as an example, this past week, last week, I took, our executive team went on a retreat. We locked ourselves literally in the north woods of Wisconsin in a cabin. OK. Seven adults living together, 12-hour days. And my check-in activity, we spent an hour. I created a game. And it's simple; it's a PowerPoint slide deck. But I used the 34 strengths. But then I put behaviors. And what everybody did was everybody got a note card. And they would put the name — so they put Ted in green, because I lead Strategic. And they put Jason in purple, because he leads Executing. And then what I did was I said, like, "There's a prize if all seven of us ever say that this person leads with that strength" for this piece.

Ted Neitzke:
[35:31] So, like, one of them was "Can navigate the G drive." Right. So, like, six people put Jason up, and one person puts Rochelle up. And we're like, "Oh, we were so close!" Right. But what are we doing? We are normalizing strengths for our behaviors. And I think that's the gap of a lot of organizations, right. They'll put, they'll put your Top 5 on the name on the door, and they'll, but how are you normalizing it? Right.

Ted Neitzke:
[36:02] So like one, you know, like "Can bring sun, can bring sunshine to a cloudy day." Right. So then it's like, you see Jean Marie, and you see Aaron's name. And, and then, and then it's like six people's, six different names of seven. And it's like, See, this is great! We're recognizing all of our strengths. And we just kind of rapidly went through it. I'll be happy to share it with you, cause it's, it's not copywritten, but it's, it's a great little tool, because it's like the, like one of them said, "Seriously serious." Right. And then, you know, who, who's going to get tagged on that one? Right. A Maximizer, God bless them. Right. But a Maximizer is going to be like, well, that person or, or, you know, I don't know. There's so many strengths that can be seriously serious, but it was, it was just fun. Cause we, you know, we kind of ripped through it like "First person to make a hot dish when someone else is sick." Right. And then, woop. So, I think —

Jim Collison:
[36:56] Yeah, well, there's, there's — Ted, there's no right answer to some of those that's right, because strengths can combine, and folks can find where they're at. But it's the discussion, right, that you're having around that makes, that makes the difference. So Emily, let me toss it back to you.

Ted Neitzke:
[37:11] I was going to say, and the regular reminder that we are all operating within these strengths. And when we start to recognize them, it's kind of like, I don't know if you ever saw National Lampoon's, well, shoot, what was their college movie? I'm fogging out. "Animal House." There's a scene in "Animal House" where, like, John Belushi goes off on this tirade, and he's, he's totally wrong about all of his historical references, but somebody says, "He's on a roll. Let him go!" When, when people operate in their strengths, and you recognize that they're in their strength, they're on a roll. Let them go! Because that creates engagement. Look at, you guys are my friends. I can be authentic around you. You give me feedback. You coach me from a place of care and concern. So, I mean, as far as I'm concerned, these are now parallel rails for our organization, and we're not quitting on it — to the point where, like, we give out to our employees, I just put one right here. Like, we have our little water bottles. They say "My Strengths" on them. And then, obviously, they're branded.

Ted Neitzke:
[38:24] But then there are stickers that then they put their 5 strengths on there, so that they can just constantly either remind themselves or others by pointing to like, "Listen, you guys, I don't, I, I, I'm, I'm really sorry, but I'm, I'm being, I'm falling into Responsibility here. And I really think that we're not thinking about this. And I'm stacking my Responsibility strength with Harmony. And I think we need to focus on the people." Nobody's going to punch back at that and be like, "You don't matter. Shut your face!" It's like, "That's a really good point. Thank you for bringing that up." And it allows you to step into that space with confidence and authenticity.

Jim Collison:
[39:00] Emily, let me throw it back to you.

Emily Behling:
[39:02] Yeah. And Ted, I've heard you say the word "recognize" or "recognition" a few times. And as we know, recognition in education is really, really low. So only 24% of teachers strongly agree that they've received recognition in the last 7 days for doing meaningful work. So tell me how you've seen strengths transform the workplaces and the districts that you all are partnering with, and especially when it comes to recognition.

Ted Neitzke:
[39:29] So that's a really good area to discuss is because recognition is something that can be kind of a minefield if you don't naturally do it. In other words, like, I've seen organizations that we've supported actually use the Q¹², see that their lowest area was recognition or feedback, and then disingenuously start like giving people a card a week, and putting out cake to celebrate, you know, we want to recognize your effort — and then, only to have it drive down. And they're no longer a client of ours, but we had one group where the first time they took it, they were at28%. And I always say like, "That's the best and worst it's ever been. We don't know better." We went through the three. We coached around the strategies. They agreed as a leadership team. And their senior leader decided to, like, almost punitively provide recognition. That was in the fall.

Ted Neitzke:
[40:30] In the spring, they took the Q^12® again, and they dropped to 11% engagement across their employee base. I mean, I've never seen anybody go backwards after you get your baseline. And they didn't just go down; they plummeted. And the feedback was, "The leadership team is punishing us for not being engaged." Watch this. So why I bring that part up is when we do actively recognize people, it's important to know — and you guys just did a great white paper on this a couple months ago — it's important to know what is genuine, what is authentic and what is meaningful for people, and then to guide towards that.

Ted Neitzke:
[41:07] So my personal favorite strategy is to share a compliment. So we do quarterly meetings with our directors. They come in, and they kind of give the state of their project or their kind of business unit. And then when we're all done, we ask them, Celebrate with us, the senior leadership, a member of your team, and then tell us why and what they did. And what we've done is we've, we've become very intentional about, like, because I truly believe the best compliment for me when I was little was when I heard my mom say to my dad, like, "Hey, I went to parent teacher conferences, and Teddy's really doing well in X class." When my mom would come and say it to me, I felt good. But when I overheard her, like, proudly telling my grandma or, or, you know, "Why can't you be more like your brother?" to my little brothers, it was like, oh, she really knows what I'm doing.

Ted Neitzke:
[41:56] So we then send a very personalized note to staff. And what's fun for me is that I'll be doomscrolling through LinkedIn before trying to fall asleep. And then I'll see one of our staff members post a picture of, I got this card from the CPO today, the Chief People Officer today. I got this note from "Who does this?" And one of the things that we want to do is we, we just, we've normalized seeing you, to make sure that we recognize your effort. And it's not fake. Like we're really impressed by — Wow, you, you, you tried really hard, and it failed. And we are right with you. I mean, one of our key values as an organization is to fail fast. And, because we know that we learn more and we grow more from that. And we actually have an end-of-year celebration where we celebrate failure. And you cannot clap or make noise until someone has vulnerably said, "Here's where it didn't work, here's what we learned, and here's what we did about it." As a matter of fact, I don't know, I just happen to have these things here, but, like, we give out little noisemakers, like, Hey, great job, you know, not hitting your mark or failing a customer or the strategy didn't work.

Ted Neitzke:
[43:15] And then that leads, again, to my point of being that authentic feedback and recognition of, like, we're not just recognizing excellence; we're recognizing failure, to make it safe to play in between. And that's, that's a learning from our staff. Like, I'm going to keep using the word "normalize" because it's this weekend's podcast for me, but that's, like, normalize these things for people, so that it's comfortable, navigable and predictable.

Emily Behling:
[43:42] Yeah. I love that. And I don't think failure is normalized enough. And that's why people are so afraid of failure, just because human nature, we all want to perform. We want to be the Maximizer, right? We want to of put our best effort forward. So.

Ted Neitzke:
[43:57] Well, and your, your whole life, you've been taught to aspire for the A. OK. And, and you know what? C is actually pretty good. I mean, average is not bad, but we've, we have, we have gotten away from the fact that, like, that like, it's OK to not, to not hit the mark. We got to recognize the journey. And then the powerful part is, what we'll do now is, we'll go in there and we'll find, like, well, here's the gap. You need to find somebody with these strengths to complement this project for you or this process with you. Cause it's a blind spot. I mean, I'm, I just heard myself. I'm kind, I mean, I wish my original strengths coach could have heard that because, like, that was not my language 7 or 8 years ago. My language would have been like, "What the hell is wrong with you? Get it together and get it done!" And now it's like, "Well, I can see, you know, you guys, you, you formulated the strategy. You put to place the execution skill. You considered the people. But you can't convince anybody. Go find an orange person with those leading strengths to at least guide you to get it done." That's engaging, right? That's me looking out for you.

Jim Collison:
[45:12] Ted, one of the things, we did a high school internship program here at Gallup for a while, and I got the opportunity to lead that. And we bring these high school students in for a 6-week summer internship. We give them projects to do. And we were talking about the system and how we teach them. Sometimes, you know, in the education system, we expect them to do an assignment, and they turn it in, and it's over. And we would have them write some code, and then we would kick the code back and say, OK, it's good, but it could be better. And the look on their face sometimes was, Did I fail? No, but it could be better. Like, you have more time to, it's not an assignment to do that's one-and-done. And I think that's, oftentimes we think, like, I just need to work to get it done. And then we could say, "Well, what didn't work here?" And man, that process took a while for them to get. But once they got to the point where getting it back with corrections or whatever was safe and comfortable, the next set of work they did was almost twice as good as the original, right? Because they got feedback that was genuine and honest, and it wasn't the best. It wasn't the best work. It could have been better.

Jim Collison:
[46:32] And so I appreciate that. I appreciate you using that example, because I think sometimes we think if we get the first negative feedback we get, we've failed. And it's like, no, this is just the opportunity to do it better. Again, it has to genuinely be safe, though, right? I mean, we have to create that environment of psychological safety so people feel safe in that environment. How do you continue to support an environment that — because it's easy to go negative very, very fast. How do you keep supporting that environment so it stays positive?

Ted Neitzke:
[47:04] Yeah. Well, first, to your point just now, all 34 strengths, all of them support resiliency. You know, the ability not to give up on yourself, to just go, right? And that's not something that's by nature a human behavior. Like we have to learn to fail, move and go. And schools fundamentally teach finish, move on, and then the feedback loop of like, yeah, this is pretty good, but let's go next level. That nurturing is what comes. And when you, when you amplify it, like saying, and OK, so here, you guys wrote this code, you got this far, you know, you men, women and people who got us this far. Now I need you to do it this, this, and this, and seeing your strengths profile, like, here's, here's the best way for you to approach this. But you guys make your choices.

Ted Neitzke:
[48:01] That's not what we naturally do in school. We, we finish the biology unit, and then we move on to amoebas. We don't go back and say, like, let's relearn the gaps. Let's make sure you've got the skills and knowledge, because we're under these time constraints. Well, in the workplace, you have time constraints, but the pursuit of excellence is built into those time constraints of these rapid cycles of failure and improvement. And I think that's something that our team is on the verge of mastery. We'll never master it, but this opportunity to do that. So, you know, again, it's this building of resiliency within people to see that we're going to celebrate every aspect of the work, and just make sure that you recognize that we notice what you're doing. And that leads to engagement, and that supports strengths. And it doesn't matter what you lead with. When you get that reinforcement that, boy, we love who you are, even when it doesn't go well, and we've got your back, boy, that creates a lot of safety. And that will help those — it'll help everybody that we serve.

Emily Behling:
[49:06] Yeah. And Ted, I know that you have high Futuristic; I've heard it a few times already today, and I know that we might want to get to some questions in the chat here, but what impact and legacy do you hope to make as the CEO of CESA 6?

Ted Neitzke:
[49:23] You know, that's a great question. I, we just had this conversation. My, my goal and our goal is to, to kind of be the, the education service agency. That's our vision, period. We want to be the most influential education service agency. And we are now moving into really bringing our learning of ourselves to the systems that we serve and building Buffalo culture everywhere we go. And whether that be, like, here with the children's book we just published; whether that be supporting people; whether that be just able to answer questions. But most of all, I think what we're most excited about is that we can model for other people the journey, what it looks like and how to do it. And we're going to constantly aspire to be an engaged environment, and we're going to hope that we can keep — I mean, we're not going to hope; we're going to work tirelessly to make sure that happens. And at the same time, we're going to work really, really hard to make sure that every employee is strength coached multiple times per year, so that they can see what other people might point out as their deficits as their true assets for the organization, and then start to shop those assets to help us all be better.

Jim Collison:
[50:44] Ted, an organization's thinking about this. They're like, Oh, I really wish — yeah, but you don't know my organization. The doubt starts to creep in a little bit. What kind of advice, as we think about maybe wrapping this up, and if folks listening live, if you're on YouTube or LinkedIn, you want to throw a quick question in chat, we'd take those. But what's your response to, "Ah, we're just, it's too hard to do this. What do you say to that? It's too hard to come back from where we are. You don't know my organization."

Ted Neitzke:
[51:20] I would have a coaching-to-courage conversation with that person, because that's just, that is the voice of a disengaged leader. You know, you can't quit on the people that you work with before you've even started. And, you know, I'm, and like Emily pointed out, Positivity for me is No. 4, but when I rank mine, Positivity is No. 1. And, and for me, an optimist is someone who bets that they will win. And when I run into a pessimist who bets against themselves or the people around them, I question like, Why are, how are you even in that job? If you don't believe the people you work with can find the spark to be in a position to choose engagement and then grow to understand their own strengths, you might need a person-in-the-mirror moment, because the only thing stopping any organization from pursuing excellence in engagement is the leadership's mindset.

Ted Neitzke:
[52:16] And Jim, that's a great question, because I have a lot of people who are like, "Yeah, I don't know. Do we really care about the engagement of people?" Well, OK, let's look at the facts. There are less people in the world right now, especially the United States, to take the jobs that we need them to do in the future. Everybody's running around thinking AI is going to replace everything. It's not. It's the people who can use AI who will replace those of us who refuse to do it. It's the next generation that's coming up who is advocating for their own wellbeing and moving fast, if they work in an organization that they don't feel cares for them. So we're not a rub-a-little-dirt-on-it-and-get-over-it society anymore. We are finally to a point where people recognize that when my heart hurts, it's like a sprained ankle. And if my organization doesn't demonstrate care and concern for my wellbeing through my engagement or my strengths, I'm going to go shop until I find one that has.

Ted Neitzke:
[53:07] And if any of you work for someone who doesn't care about it, I will help you find a job. And if we have one for you, we will hire you, because we want a herd of people who really believe that it can happen. And again, it goes to if your chief HR person or a manager within the organization gets all jazzed up about this and starts to do it, but the people above you in the hierarchy don't believe in it, I don't want to say you're wasting your time, but you'll have a pocket of excellence instead of the pursuit of it. So, I mean, Jim, I appreciate that question, because I love, love when people come up to me and they're like, "Ah, you know, you guys can do that because you're teachers." Excuse me, mon frere, you don't get it. Like I, I work in the industry that's probably the most disengaged in the public sector period. And it's because of the lack of emphasis on all of those things. So if you, if you quit on yourself, don't even come around me.

Jim Collison:
[54:08] My daughter is now working in OPS or Omaha Public Schools. And so getting a little insight of this and working with students in the past, we've seen that as well. So I always appreciate that. Emily, let's, as we wrap this up, let's practice a little bit what we preach. I'm going to put you on the spot a little bit. You work with CESA 6 all the time. From what you see from our vantage point, what kind of recognition would you give those coaches, that team, Ted here? What would you say, how could we recognize them or how can we encourage them as we wrap this together?

Emily Behling:
[54:43] Yeah, absolutely. I think you hit it on the, the nail on the head, Ted, when you say to be authentic and to step into more of who you are. I think that's what makes your culture so unique is the people. And I've had the pleasure of not only working with Ted, but so many others at CESA 6. And just the passion and the energy that you all have to make the education space a better place to work, a better place for students to thrive. And I just think the mission of your organization is so inspiring. And being a kid who actually grew up in Wisconsin, it's amazing to see the work that is really transforming the entire state. So I would just say keep leaning into your strengths — On, Wisconsin! — really focusing on teachers and staff, because they are the ones who are most influential on our future leaders. So I'm just so proud of all of the work that you're doing, Ted, and everyone else at CESA 6 is doing. It's really a collective effort. And we're just so proud to be a partner to you all. So thank you so much for the work that you're all doing each and every day.

Ted Neitzke:
[55:50] Thank you. That was very kind. I —

Jim Collison:
[55:54] Ted, you have — go ahead.

Ted Neitzke:
[55:56] I was going to say, before I forget, I wanted to share one other cool experience that I just had, for the people who are listening or watching. This Saturday, my son, who is a first-year teacher — he's in the family business; he's an 8th grade social studies teacher — their school district has all the new teachers do their Top 5. And he came home one day and he's like, "Yeah, my assistant superintendent said that she pulled us from Gallup, and she was kind of surprised. She's like, you know, 'Charlie, you have a 34 report in there.'" And he's like, "Yeah, my dad, you know, he's — " And she goes, "Well, I mean, if your dad's a strengths coach, that's kind of cool. So he comes home after years of me preaching about this, and he discovers on his own, like, "Hey dad, can we, can we go out on Saturday for lunch or breakfast? And can you coach me?" And I will tell you the single, I mean, I, I told my wife, I said, "I was more excited about him asking me that than when he was 4 and said, 'Dad, can you be my soccer coach?'" Like, "Yes, I would love to coach you through your strengths!"

Ted Neitzke:
[56:55] And we had this unbelievable conversation, because every pinch point he has professionally is with a colleague who has one of his lower 34, 30 through 34, as their strength. So, like, this, he has these people in his life who are Achievers, and Achiever is 34 for him. And No. 1for him is Developer; no. 2 is Positivity; no. 3 — he's, 8of his 10 are blue. They're all Relationship. So this Achiever keeps showing up like, "Hey, you know, what are you going to do? And how are you going to do it?" And finally I said, "Charlie, you need to advocate for yourself through your strengths and say, like, 'Listen, when you come to me,'" — cause she's an Achiever with Strategic and Futuristic. So she could right away think of stuff and then make it excellent. Right. And he's like, "No, I need you to just give me the idea, and then I will make it my own." And he's more worried about her being upset.

Ted Neitzke:
[57:42] And what was really powerful was we coached through it. We coached through a bunch of other stuff. Monday, he comes home. He says, "Hey, I had that conversation with her. And I think it went pretty well. Like, she's now just going to tell me what she thinks I should do so I can build off of it." And like, my heart was full. Fantastic. So, like, this is an applicable thing in your personal life, your professional life and everything within your purview. And that's what I would end with is that if you truly want to teach people, start at home.

Jim Collison:
[58:11] Love that. And certainly as a dad, that has been some of the best experiences that I've had is with my own kids talking about this. Emily, thank you for bringing Ted and CESA 6 here today. This was your idea, and I appreciate that. I think you've done a great job of leading us through this. Would you take a second and thank Ted for being here?

Emily Behling:
[58:33] Yeah, Ted, always a pleasure to get to spend time with you. And I know how busy your schedule is. So thanks for carving out an hour and spending the afternoon with us. And we're, again, just so thankful for our partnership with CESA 6 and excited to see the impact that you can continue to have in the state of Wisconsin. So thanks again, Ted, for being here. We really appreciate it.

Ted Neitzke:
[58:55] Yeah, you're welcome. Thank you, Gallup.

Jim Collison:
[58:58] Ted, I have to admit, if I didn't have a great job here in Omaha, Nebraska, I might be thinking, Hmm, maybe Wisconsin. Maybe I should figure out how to be working — because, what, engaged organizations are a talent magnet, right? They draw people to themselves. And so, so great job. Thanks for sharing that with us and appreciate it as well. Thanks for coming on today.

Ted Neitzke:
[59:21] Yeah, thank you. And hey, remember, engagement's a choice.

Jim Collison:
[59:24] For sure. With that, we'll remind everyone to take full advantage of all the resources we do have available for you, both strengths and engagement, in Gallup Access. Log in — my.gallup.com. For coaching, master coaching, you want to become a Gallup-Certified Strengths Coach like we've been talking about here during the program, you can send us an email: coaching@gallup.com. Stay up to date with all our future webcasts — you can join our Facebook or LinkedIn groups or find us just about on any social platform by searching "CliftonStrengths." And if you enjoyed it, hit those Like buttons and Subscribe. That way, you never miss an episode. For those joining us live, you guys were quiet, but that's OK. Thanks for coming out today. With that, we'll say, Goodbye, everybody.

Emily Behling's Top 5 CliftonStrengths are Achiever, Positivity, Communication, Relator and Learner.

Ted Nietzke's Top 5 CliftonStrengths are Strategic, Futuristic, Activator, Positivity and Learner.