Helping Leaders Craft Their Legacy

Called to Coach Webcast Series -- Season 12, Episode 11

Below are audio and video plus a transcript of the conversation, including time stamps.

"Someone is sitting in the shade today because someone else planted a tree long ago," says Warren Buffett. Today's leaders would do well to consider who will be sitting tomorrow in the shade of the trees they plant today. Managers and leaders need coaching as they seek to craft a legacy -- coaching that reaches the head and the heart. And strengths coaches are in the perfect role to do this. What questions can leaders ask themselves that will help put their legacy in focus? How can they lead and manage with their strengths in mind? How can they set realistic expectations for themselves and delegate work effectively? And how can they foster team engagement through learning how to have great conversations and ask helpful questions? Join Gallup's Amatoga Jeremie and discover how to coach leaders to lead purposefully as they think about their legacy.

Years from now, ... a year from now, ... How do you want your leadership to be known? What kind of leader do you want to be? What are the words you want people to say about you? Start there.

Amatoga Jeremie, 10:57

So that's the power that strengths coaching has -- the head and the heart. We can bring both; we can make those connections.

Amatoga Jeremie, 7:03

We have to coach leaders ... to ask more questions ... [so they can] really understand what their people need, ... how to focus them, how to motivate them. Not every interaction should be a status update or a directive.

Amatoga Jeremie, 26:31

Jim Collison 0:01
I am Jim Collison, and this is Gallup's Called to Coach, recorded on April 16, 2024.

Jim Collison 0:06
Called to Coach is a resource for those who want to help others discover and use their strengths. We have Gallup experts and independent strengths coaches share tactics, insights and strategies to help coaches maximize the talent of individuals, teams and organizations around the world. If you're listening live, we'd love to have your questions in chat. You can, if you're on LinkedIn, just drop it in below. On YouTube, it's going to be over on the right. If you're listening after the fact, on the podcast or on YouTube, the recorded version, you can send us your questions -- this email address really kind of works for everything: coaching@gallup.com. Don't forget to subscribe on your favorite podcast app or right there on YouTube, so you never miss an episode. Amatoga Jeremie is my guest today. Amatoga is a Leadership Development Consultant. Her CliftonStrengths^® Top 5 are Strategic^®, Learner^®, Connectedness^®, Context^® and Positivity^®. Amatoga, it's always a great day to be with you. Welcome back to Called to Coach!

Amatoga Jeremie 1:13
Thank you so much, Jim. You know, we have fun when, when we're together chatting.

Meet Our Guest on This Episode

Jim Collison 1:17
It's the best thing about Gallup at times is I feel like everybody's a best friend. And you can just get together, like, we just have the best conversations. We were doing some GGSC coaches training the other day, and one of our, one of our practice teams was in -- folks from all over the U.S. We talk to each other every day, but you would have thought it was a high school class reunion. It was loud. And we were yelling at each other and hugs all the time. Right. And I felt, we were in the room right next to the GGSC course that was go -- had to go, a couple days later, I had to apologize, say, "Sorry, sorry, we were so loud." But that's kind of the relationships we have. It's been a while since we've seen you. Let's get a quick update on you. Tell us what you do for Gallup, what we pay you to do, some of the best parts of your role here at Gallup.

Amatoga Jeremie 2:08
Sure. I like to call it the three C's -- what I do. So I'm a strengths coach. And I've been doing a lot of that lately, which is why this episode was top-of-mind. A lot of leadership coaching, helping leaders foster relationships on their teams, aiming that at performance, so lots of team coaching, too. I also do a lot of work around our engagement survey, the Q^12®. And I actually just got out of an executive briefing for that, just helping leaders action on what they, what they find in the results, because we love to collect. But really, it's about the follow-up and what we're going to do about it. And I'm a course leader, too. So you mentioned GGSC -- I teach those too. I teach a lot of our strengths and engagement courses, online and in person. But you know I love in person. It's the, it's the in-person vibe that gets me every single time.

Jim Collison 3:00
It's always good. I always, I always, whenever we have on campus, and I always tell the instructor, I would love to teach one of these, but I don't think I have the stamina. I go, go so fast, I'd burn out in an hour. Like, I'd just be exhausted, I just can't. I'm good for an hour; that's about it.

Amatoga Jeremie 3:16
You need a webinar. You need to do the strengths webinar.

Jim Collison 3:19
That's why Called to Coach exists. I'm only good for an hour. Why did you say -- you and I have been talking about doing something for a while. And, you know, in the preshow, we have been talking about, you know, sometimes a hindrance to our, to coaching leaders or to helping leaders is a little bit of imposter syndrome. You're younger, and you're in this space, and you're coaching and talking to leaders. Does -- is that, is that a scary proposition? And, and tell us why you're passionate about it.

Amatoga Jeremie 3:51
Yeah, this episode came out of my personal experience before I go in there. And I'm thinking about all, all the "Whys." Like, Why me? Why am I having this conversation? Am I even well-equipped to speak to these high-powered, talented individuals? And I acknowledge that I'm young. A lot of, a lot of these leaders are, you know, they are older than me, from a different generation, and so, when you think about mindset, even, like, the perspective that I'm coming in with. But one thing that we all have in common is we want to grow. That's No. 1. We found that in Gallup's research, right -- we want to grow and develop. And leaders are no different. And I find that they, they all want to unlock their potential. What am I capable of? What do I need to watch out for?

Amatoga Jeremie 4:40
And as a strengths coach, I'm more than prepared to have a strengths conversation with, with anyone, especially leaders. But you asked why I'm, why I'm passionate about it. You know, I coach individuals, I coach teams. But when you're a leader, especially when you steer an organization or you're responsible for an area of a business or an organization, your strengths, your values, the things that you need to watch out for -- so those unproductive behaviors -- they have a huge impact on people, on culture, on the team culture within the organization, and how you drive business, how you move the business, how you're seen outside, and I think it's, the strengths coach can help leaders zoom out in that way.

Strengths Coaches: Reaching the Head and the Heart

Jim Collison 5:35
You, when you think about leaders, do you think about it maybe both from an intellectual or a head perspective, and maybe an emotional, or maybe from a heart perspective? Can you tell us a little bit about how you approach that, both intellectually or, or, you know, with the brain versus emotionally with the heart?

Amatoga Jeremie 5:58
Absolutely. I think, so our, our competitive advantage, I guess you could say, as a strengths coach is we do have the ability with Gallup research to present the head and the heart. So I guess, to Ken's comment, Will they be open to what I have to say? We know that people who use their strengths are 3 times as likely to report having an excellent quality of life, because they're using their strengths. We also know that in the workplace, they're 6 times as likely to be more engaged. But then when you're talking to executives, for example, so that level of leadership, who are responsible for companies, organizations, Gallup also has the data showing that, when people answer that they get to, they have an opportunity to do what they do best every day, there's like 11% increase in profitability. So who doesn't want, you know, who doesn't want their company to be profitable? And then there's, like, 30% reduction in turnover. So you want your talent to stay. So that's the power that strengths coaching has -- the head and the heart. We can bring both; we can make those connections.

Coaching and Development: Vital for Leaders and Managers

Jim Collison 7:13
We know from some of our data that the, the most disengaged units in the business today are the managers. They're getting hit from both sides. They, they are having incredibly, incredibly difficult conversations in this remote space or this hybrid space or whatever we're going to call that at this point. It's kind of a mess, to be honest, right now, as I talk to folks, and a lot of folks are confused. They think they know what it is, but they're not exactly sure what's going on at the moment. And then, of course, there's a, there's a leadership, there may be a leadership vacuum at the top, where their executive teams have moved on from leading them. They think they're leading the company. They're doing that OK, but they've stopped leading the leaders. How critical is it, as we think about managers and leaders in the organization, that they're also getting coaching and development? And maybe give me some areas that you're seeing that's working, or that you're seeing, cause you do this all the time. What are they asking for? Talk a little bit about that.

Amatoga Jeremie 8:21
Absolutely. You know, I'll just start with the manager. So a lot of us who become managers, or we call them "people leaders" now, so anyone who leads people, some, somewhere in your career, you were a rock-star individual contributor. You were on a team, and someone came to you, like, and said, "You're so good at what you do. Have you considered being a manager?" And you were like, "Yeah, why not? I'll try it." But then, like, that's where it ended, right? So no one gave you the handbook on how to lead people successfully, how to inspire them, how to motivate them, how to get to know your people, how to get to know them in a way that motivates performance and high achievement. And so, many managers are kind of "roses in the concrete," where they're great managers, but they were never coached or developed themselves; they weren't nurtured the way that they needed. And so, you know, our coaching sessions are certainly that. They feel like they're being supported. They get to ask the questions that they never felt comfortable asking, or they never felt that they could admit, like, I don't know how to do this. Like, how do, how do I have a conversation that inspires my team? You know, how do I get them to, like, get to know each other, to talk to each other, especially in this hybrid environment?

Jim Collison 9:48
Let's talk to those leaders for just a second. And I'll remind folks that are listening live, if you've got questions, you can start throwing those in the chat room. We'll be taking those as well. Let's, Amatoga, think about this leader for a second who's just, they're, they might be out there on an island at the moment. They're getting hit from above and below, however you want to define that, or side to side, impossible -- you know, they're being asked to do the impossible. How do they, how do they start, they're, where do they start? What's, you know, of course, we have CliftonStrengths. And so, and they, some things that can start learning about themselves. But as you think about that, as you're, as you're getting to those managers, and we're talking to an audience of coaches and organizations who are thinking about this, where's a good place to start?

Amatoga Jeremie 10:41
So, just like this episode is named, their legacy. I, I like to work backwards. So I'm gonna have high Strategic, high Connectedness. And so I'm thinking big picture. Like, I mean, it is years from now, it could be a year from now, but how do you, how do you want people to talk about your leadership? How do you want your leadership to be known? What kind of leader do you want to be? What are the words you want people to say about you? Like, start there, you know, like your team, the work that you do. How do you want, you know, how do you want your impact on the communities that you serve or on the, you know, on the, like, your impact on the industry that you work in -- like, what do you want that to be? Like, zoom out for a second on this task that you have to do or on this process that you have to, you know, roll out to your people. What kind of leader do you want to be?

Questions That Put a Leader's Legacy in Focus

Jim Collison 11:45
Amatoga, that's a big question, right? I mean, how do you, so you ask somebody -- let's just pretend it's me for a second -- 10 or 15 years out in my career, and I'm thinking about what, what, how do you, as a coach, how can you help me? What kind of questions can you use to help me? Because if you're just like, Well, where do you want to be? And I'm like, Well, I want to still be alive, you know, and I want to have good health associated with it. Right? So I've got some time doing that. And, you know, so How do you, how would, how would you help me? Or how, what kind of questions could we ask as a coach to help us kind of start building some of that out, so to speak?

Amatoga Jeremie 12:25
Yeah. So we actually already have the tools as a strengths coach. So, for example, you know, when we're talking about strengths and weaknesses, so helping leaders to identify kind of what's their unique contribution to the team or to the organization as a leader, kind of what's one thing that they do that no one else does? Kind of how do they create the conditions for ideas and solutions to emerge? What might they need to watch out for, like, as a, you know, as a leader, especially when you're leading people, you know, what have been those, that feedback that you've gotten from your team or throughout your career, that you kind of know that you can get in your own way or get in other people's way? You know, so that, that theme awareness that we learned in the strengths coaching, that help and hinder, now you just aim it within the context of leadership. Now, you're leading people or leading a team, or you're leading an organization.

Jim Collison 13:31
Do you think it's harder to have that conversation with a, you know, an older leader, who's been doing it for a while, versus a younger leader who may not have all the experience? But, you know, I kind of think is, is an, is experience a benefit, a drawback? Or is it just different? As we think, you know, Joseph in chat, I think says this nice: What's the horizon, and where is your place on that horizon? As you work with leaders, Is it easier younger, easier, older? Does it not matter? Talk a little bit about that, as we find people, you know, on the career spectrum, so to speak.

Amatoga Jeremie 14:12
You're right, it is, it is just different. But I think something that kind of levels the playing field is talking about successes or peak experiences, and their -- or successful, you know, successes in their leadership experience or peak experiences. Because, you know, someone who has more years under their belt, they can certainly, you know, point to some wins. And I think it's really motivating for a young leader to think about, OK, well, maybe I've only been doing this for 6 months. I think I did have a win. You know, I think, I think I did help my team in this way or I did move the business in this way. And so, as a coach, with that one powerful question that we ask, we can help them to spotlight their own talents and their best partnerships and allies, which every leadership -- leader needs.

Coaching Leaders Based on Their Needs

Jim Collison 15:05
Yeah. When, what, what are some common thing -- what, are there some themes that you're hearing, as we think about starting with the end in mind -- stealing, I think that's a Covey thing. Starting with the end in mind, are there themes that you hear consistently? And let's think about working our way, if we're going to start with the end and working our way backwards, What do you hear? And then how are, how do you start backing into that?

Amatoga Jeremie 15:31
Like, what do I hear from our leaders?

Jim Collison 15:34
Yeah. As you've, you've spent time with leaders, do you hear common themes? When you ask that question of, Where do you want to be? You know, we talk, in the title, we use the word legacy. That's a pretty generic, you know, like, OK, what, and you, you mentioned a few. You know, maybe you want to, you know, work your, you want to be a giver, a person who can continue to give, either financially or with their time. Maybe you want to be a leader who's a mentor, or maybe you want to build something, right. Do you hear -- I don't do a lot of this, so I don't know -- but do you hear, are there common threads in that? Are, do you hear things that allow you to start working back to, not necessarily today, but to the more current future?

Amatoga Jeremie 16:16
Actually, yes. And I'm not sure if people expect this answer, but I hear this one thing that I want my people to know that I care about them. And I'm not sure if I get that message across -- which, you think, at that level, you know, they'd be concerned about, I don't know, business outcomes, you know, like productivity. But they're like, No, I, I want to show care. I want them to know that I care about them as people, that I care about their growth, that, you know, whatever they're here for, whether it's to become a leader as well, or whatever opportunities that they'd like to take advantage of, I want them to feel comfortable having that conversation with me, and I want to make it happen for them. So that's actually a very common, common theme. And a lot of these leaders actually enjoy developing people. They enjoy being mentors and coaches, and they just don't feel like -- they feel like with everything that's on their plate, they just don't have time to do it. But they want to, because, because that's how, they acknowledge that that's how they got to this place. Somebody did that for them.

Setting Realistic Expectations, Coaching to a Leader's Strengths

Jim Collison 17:29
Yeah. And How do, how do you, how do you work, or how, when you're coaching leaders in this way, realizing there's, there's more to be done than can possibly ever be done, to set some realistic expectations? I think younger leaders think they can do it, not knowing they actually can't, because leadership is an impossible task sometimes. Older leaders know it's impossible, but know they need to keep at it, right? It needs to be done. And there is not a, there's no, there's no perfect place in this. But when you think about those leaders you're working with, and you get to that realization, then what?

Amatoga Jeremie 18:16
So as a, as a coach, we have to remind the leaders that they have teams, that they have a team that supports them. So as a leader, you're simultaneously leading, and you are also a member of a team. Right. And so it's that balance. But remember that you have a team that's with you that's behind you. You also have allies and partners that are within the organization and, many times, outside of the organization. So it's like, so it behooves you to learn, not only learn your strengths and learn your, learn what to watch out for, but to learn about the, the folks that work with you, that you collaborate with often, so that way, you can lean on them. And that will give you more time; that will give you more time to grow and develop the folks who want to be, you know, who want to be mentored and coached.

Jim Collison 19:06
When we think about building a legacy, we think about a vision of what things could be or what I want them to be. But oftentimes, life doesn't give us all the cards. Like, we think, Hey, you know, 25 years ago, you, there's no way you could have told me I'd be podcasting. Like I didn't know. So How do, how also, as you think about working with leaders, how do you kind of, how do you build for or account for the unknown in that, especially maybe in the career, in the career area? Or thinking -- well, this is probably a separate question, but -- they're leading, and maybe they shouldn't be, right, in some cases. So I don't know, What does that -- respond to that.

Amatoga Jeremie 19:55
And that's a reality. I've definitely, I actually just, I was just working with a client. He was in one of my leadership development courses. And he came to me, and he's like, I'm actually really considering moving into a different type of position, because I realized I love mentoring and coaching, and I'm not doing it in my current position. And I'm really excited about this. So yes, those shifts can certainly happen. And that's the power of strengths coaching. And that's why we have to have conversations with our leaders about What truly fills your cup? What brings you fulfillment? What brings you joy? What's the most favorite part of your job, you know, what you do every single day? And we start to build towards that future. Because then we put it together and we start, we start talking about, OK, what's your legacy going to be? What are you going to get into in the future?

Jim Collison 20:45
Yeah. Do you find some people don't know? And they're not able to, they're not able to articulate that. And what do you do? You're a coach, you're coaching leaders. And we do this all the time, both for embedded organizations and for, for folks, maybe entrepreneurs that are, that are doing this on their own. What if they get there, and they say, "Amatoga, I don't know. Like, I don't, I'm just trying to get to tomorrow, to be honest with you," right -- which may be an engagement problem. But what do you do when that happens?

Amatoga Jeremie 21:23
That's why the CliftonStrengths report is so helpful. Because our strengths are, you know, give us some clues as to, you know, what brings us energy and what drains us. Our CliftonStrengths also gives us some, some, a springboard to think about what is most important to us. That's how Gallup defines values. What is most important to me -- somebody who has high Strategic, someone who has high Connectedness? Right, I have a "save the world" mentality with high Connectedness. So there's a lot of things that I can get into in the future to do that. But it's a starting point. So the report -- start there.

Jim Collison 22:06
Coaches inside an organization seemingly might have the, I think some people think, Oh, you've got the easy job, because you got a captive audience. And yet, it's just as difficult. As you think of the tools -- you mentioned, you know, of course, the assessment itself. But as you're working with leaders, what do you like, or what's your, what's your go-to tool to begin to start having some of those conversations? And maybe this isn't -- this conversation of, Who you want to be, Where do you want to go? may not be a one-and-done, this may not be in your first 90-minute or 60-minute conversation, right. So how do you, as you think about that with leaders, what other tools do we have that, that can be used to working with leaders in this way?

Amatoga Jeremie 22:53
Absolutely. So Jim, full, full disclosure: I have to go get my computer charger! Because I'm that person that forgets to bring it down. Yes.

Jim Collison 23:04
We don't want to lose you. OK, while you're -- tell you what, while you're doing that, there's been a couple of comments in chat. So you go do that, and I'll cover some of those, because we don't want you to disconnect. So go, go and do that. OK. While she's out, there were a few things coming in in the chat room. So let me cover those. First of all, thanks for, thanks for throwing the chat in. There had been one -- oh, yeah, I had mentioned how I don't like famous people, and Anna had said, Often, treating someone famous like a regular person, ignoring the titles, awards, dollars, etc., is the best gift you can give someone as a coach, it's important to understand the pressures that they live with. And Anna, I, boy, I can't agree with you more, I often think of some of the pressures they're under socially, right. I mean, that's really where it manifests itself in a lot of ways is they can no longer have a public appearance. Or when they go places, those appearances are filled with performance, however that fits in. And I think that it is important, and I try, I do my best with working with famous people to just treat them like a regular person. And by the way, not all of them want to -- especially if they're newly famous; sometimes they like being famous, right and they have some demands in the way that works. So, anyways, Anna, appreciate that, that. And Amatoga, you were fast on that charger. Good work!

Amatoga Jeremie 24:30
I have never moved so fast up and down stairs in my life!

Jim Collison 24:35
You must be in good shape. You're not even, you're not even out of breath. So --

Amatoga Jeremie 24:39
Well said. I try to do it all in one breath and get back.

Learning How to Delegate

Jim Collison 24:44
Let's get, let's get Theresa's question in here. She asks, Do you find that leaders often "tell" people what to do versus coaching their direct reports to think things through? Recognizing that sometimes people have to be told some things. As we think, in this area, this is one of those really difficult things in leadership is knowing when to delegate, and, and -- when to do and when to delegate, or when to delegate and when to tell -- however you want to phrase that. And there's no right answer to that. I think sometimes the leadership gurus are like, Well, if you just listen -- and, yeah, listening is a technique, but sometimes we've got to just, we got to do some consultation: Hey, I actually need you to get this done. And it needs to be done fairly quickly. Can you do that right now? type thing, right? So, I don't know, Amatoga, respond to that question or any thoughts on that, because that's the real challenge in leadership, I think.

Amatoga Jeremie 25:37
It is the real challenge. And I'm going to start with the response that you, that leaders don't want to hear, and that's, You will know, you -- it's a practice. First of all, delegation is a strategy; it's a practice. And it does take time, because you need to think through whether, first of all, it's an invitation. So think about who you're, who you're inviting, you know, to take on this task, and whether it would be easy for them because it's within an area of talent, or whether this is a growth opportunity, and whether it's even appropriate for, an appropriate task to even delegate to this person, right? Or should it be you -- because you have the decision-making authority, and it's something that you're responsible for? So there's a whole strategy when it comes to delegating.

Amatoga Jeremie 26:25
But Theresa, to answer your question, that is something that, as a coach, we have to coach leaders to do is to ask more questions. And I, and I do my best to provide them with some coaching questions that they can practice with, to really understand what their people need, how to communicate, you know, with their people, how to focus them, how to motivate them. And it requires that you ask questions. Not every interaction should be a status update or a directive. You know, there should be different types of conversations with your team. And so, that is something that I emphasize.

Empowering Leaders to Ask Good Questions

Jim Collison 27:05
We have some materials here at Gallup around the 5 Coaching Conversations. If you haven't seen that, you can just go on our site, just, just search that: 5 Coaching Conversations, idea of Quick Connect and Developmental Reviews and some of those -- each, each with, each with a different point. When I first started working at Gallup, we had a team called Q-Bank, they were the question bank. Now they were the question bank for our Q¹² assessment, which I'm gonna talk about here in a second. But I, as you were saying that, I like this idea of empowering -- as coaches, we're good at asking questions. But empowering leaders to maybe have some go-to questions. The, the drawback to that is if you keep using those questions over and over and over with the same people, they catch on. So you got to keep it, you got to keep it fresh, right. But I like that idea of equipping leaders with some, some great questions, based on who they're working with. This is where a coach, you can be helpful, to say, Hey, tell me a little bit about your team. Tell me about some of their struggles. Tell me some of the things they're asking you about. But, but to have some go-to, and maybe even write them down, I mean, have a note on your computer, whatever, that you can pull them up, right, and say, you know, What are some good, what are some good things I could just ask? And then listen. I don't know what do you think of that idea? Respond to that a little bit?

Amatoga Jeremie 28:19
Absolutely. I mean, I guess, you see, this is where the, the line between coaching and consulting, you know, can be a little fuzzy, because now I'm giving the, now I'm making this tactical and practical. Like, yes, after our conversation today, here's three questions that would help you to address the burning needs on your team that you can practice. And so, you know, I know that we're not supposed to tell, you know, tell them what to do, but I can't help it. You're in need, and I have, and I have what you need. So I'm gonna give you the questions.

Jim Collison 28:53
Yeah. Well, yeah. That's the fine line, oftentimes, is, is knowing, Am I giving advice? Am I just saying my own experience? I do that -- I live this all the time, right?

Amatoga Jeremie 29:07
I just ask. I ask them. I said, Are you, are you asking for, you know, are you asking for a resource? Or, you know, what are you asking for? You know, whenever I'm in trouble. But I think, you know, what leaders really want -- they know, most of the leaders I've met want to be a great leader. They do. They want to be a great leader. They want, they want to ensure that their team or their organization is healthy, that it's positive -- positive vibes. They want people to grow. It makes them feel good when people get promotions, when they're successful in their stretch opportunities, when they got to link people up and, you know, foster a new relationship. Our leader, they love that. That, that fills their cup. So whatever we can do as coaches to help them do that.

Jim Collison 30:04
Love that statement of, you know, nobody starts out intending to be a bad leader. Right? Or wakes up one morning and says, You know what? Today I'm gonna be awful. I'm just gonna be awful today. Right? And so, coming at that from they want to; the desire is there. Sometimes we just need to help them get there. Can I, can -- we got a bunch of questions coming in? Can we -- is that OK? Heather asks, I have a leader that is so focused on their legacy that she's missing connections and relationship, therefore degrading or fighting against the amazing work she's done. Any advice there? Can you have too much thought on the future, I guess is, can you be looking so far ahead, you're not paying attention to what's going on now?

Amatoga Jeremie 30:49
Absolutely. And we know that there are some strengths that are more prone to that than others, right? Like high Futuristic^®, for example, or high Significance^®. So, but one thing, you know, when an individual is so focused on their own legacy, as a coach, we can really ask questions about the people that have contributed to this legacy. So the relationships that help them to, to, you know, make these achievements happen, the partnerships that they have, the allies that they have. And so it ceases to become this, like, sole individual legacy and more of a, a, we -- we go from I to we. And so as a coach, that's where I would start. So that way, this person can remember that there are relationships that allow for them to be, to get this amazing work done; it wasn't done by themselves.

Jim Collison 31:50
Well, that, that is the trick sometimes is knowing, like, Hey, am I focusing too far ahead, or am I focusing in the now? Certainly the tyranny of the urgent can cause us to focus all on today. The promise of, of the future, which feels good, I think, sometimes, when we think about the future, what it could be, because it's the way we made it up, it floods our body with endorphins. We're like, Man, this feels really good! It's one of the things, you know, when you think about a CliftonStrengths debrief, you hear all these positive things about yourself, and it just floods your body with endorphins. You're like, Gosh, this feels good! I just want to do this all, all the time. Yet reality sets in, and we need to have some things in place, I think, right? This is what you're talking -- for a leader, this is where a coach can be helpful, because you can begin to then bounce those -- Hey, am I focusing too far ahead? Am I too caught in the weeds? How do I find center? Those are conversations that, for someone who knows you and is coaching you and is able to help you in that way, right, that they can -- and coaches, this is what you need to stop talking about and start listening for in those that you're, that you're coaching leaders. I don't know, would you add anything to that, Amatoga?

Amatoga Jeremie 33:01
Yes, I think it's, it's fruitful to ask questions that get them to talk about their orient -- I guess I would call it an orientation to time but, right, Are they more future-oriented? Are they more in the present? Are they, you know, more past orientation? And again, we have strengths that kind of lean towards that time of -- the timeline strengths, I call them. Right? And I would also ask questions to get them to identify what kind of contributor are, they are. So are they more naturally independent and more individual contributor? Are they a natural collaborator? Are they people, you know, do they like to seek outside counsel and expertise? You know, like, how, how do they make their contributions? Again, if this, if you're too, really focused on legacy and not enough on relationships, it's like, these are the types of things that people need to know about themselves that can help ground them, yeah.

Jim Collison 34:06
What I was gonna say that is that sometimes knowing that's half the battle, and then maybe working with the leadership teams around you to say, You know what? I'm very good at Strategic forward thinking. Or -- we have some of these; they're so good here at Gallup, these relationship managers who know how to, they just love people. And they're just so good at it. And you're just like, I'm in awe of them. I just, like, How do you? How do you do that? That is so awesome. But, but knowing that, right, knowing that we, knowing that our leadership roles lean that way, I think and coaches helping leaders to know that, I think sometimes, especially they get into leadership role and they're new, they have some predisposed biases that have been put on them about what leaders should be. And so they try to be everything, instead of being what they're best at. Right? And they need some work. They need some help. They need some conversations.

Jim Collison 35:01
Anna made this comment, and I don't think she meant it this way, but this is the way I'm going to take it, is we were talking about questions. And I think this is, these are a couple great questions, actually coaching questions, Anna, not sure you meant it that way. But she says, We have a conversation about the role of a leader to open doors. This is the -- Anna, I love these questions. Who has opened doors for you, and, and what did they do? I think these are great leadership questions, right? How are you opening doors for your team? So who's been influential and has changed things for you? And then how can you do that? I don't know. Amatoga, what would you add to that? Those are beautiful questions.

Amatoga Jeremie 35:41
They are! I just love the, just like the horizon question, right? They're also coming with beautiful imagery, just the visual that I get. But that's exactly it. As a leader, no matter what your role or function is and what industry, you do have to remove barriers for, for your team -- barriers to their success. That is one thing you have to do. It can be something as simple as, you know, calendaring, or it can be something more complex. But you're right. I mean, leaders have to acknowledge that they did not get here by themselves; that they had a mentor, they had a coach. So, you know, talking them through, Who was the best leader, or the most influential, the most positive influence in your life? Or Who's the best manager you've ever had, best coach you've ever had? Again, those peak experiences, to get them to, to identify those characteristics, but also how it's had a positive impact on them, how it's helped them to achieve.

Amatoga Jeremie 36:38
And so that way, they can start to identify, OK, How -- now, how do I do that? You know, what's my leadership style? Like, How am I going to open the doors for my team? Jim, you've said a word that's really important: need. So what do you need? Yeah. So in order to be the best leader you can be, what do you need in order to lead effectively? What do you need from your team? What do you need from the other leaders in your organization? What do you need?

Jim Collison 37:06
Yeah, I think early coach -- or early leaders feel like they just, you know, we have this Bring and Need exercise. This is what I bring; this is what I need. Super simple, right? Super simple, in fact, should be, we should have that conversation a lot more often than we do. But I think early in leadership, we think it's all about bringing, and I actually think the need part, because we skip it, we get empty; we run our tanks empty. And when you're empty, you're not, you're not, you can't do any of the bringing, because you're empty on the needing. And I just think there's some opportunities.

Driving Engagement Among Direct Reports

Jim Collison 37:46
Speaking of that, Ken had asked this question earlier: For those organizations that are using Q¹² (that's our engagement survey, if you're not familiar with that and listening live, or on the recorded version of it), he says, What tools do you rely upon to give strategies to leaders to increase their Q¹² -- or let's add the word engagement -- to increase the engagement of those that they're working with. Right off the top of your head, you know, you get an engagement survey back, you've got some transparent -- listen, the engagement survey is not all about the leaders. But it's a lot about the leadership, right? Thoughts on Ken's question there, as you think about tools that help to drive that engagement?

Amatoga Jeremie 38:24
Absolutely. My favorite tool, because it's the coach in me, it's the state of the team conversation outline. And what that is, it's like for each Q¹² item, it has a set of coaching questions that leaders can ask their team to identify, like, the underlying need or the underlying issue. So, for example, you know, if, you know, if the team is saying, like, I just don't have what I need to do my job. So, under that item, it would, you could ask, the leader could ask, Well, what's, what's the most essential tools or materials for your job? What is currently distracting you from being productive or from getting your work done? You know, so each item has a set of coaching questions. And it's phenomenal, because it gets leaders to practice asking questions rather than giving directives.

Jim Collison 39:29
Yeah, listen, you used the word practice. And I don't think we use that term enough in, in our leadership. Like, I think most leaders expect, Hey, I've been put in a leadership role; I should just know how. And there are some skills, like asking questions or having a good question bank or having or being able to lead in a conversation or know when it's the right time for a conversation, the only way to get there is reps. You just got to do it. You just got to go out and you got to try some things and do some stuff. This tool that you're talking about just gives you some, it takes some of the pressure off of having to make it up yourself. And then just practice, right. That's a pretty nice, that's a pretty nice, so I love that answer. For folks working with us in a Q¹² administration, we'll make those tools, we have those tools available for you. And of course, a great way to do that.

Leaders and RIFs -- Transparency and Trust

Jim Collison 40:26
Let me, let's wrap this up with one final question. I'm gonna ask you, Amatoga, some final thoughts. But Theresa asks this question -- and this is a hard one, by the way: Transitions in organizations are really difficult, especially when they involve a RIF, right? What would you suggest coaches, what would you suggest coach the leader to be comfortable after a RIF in being, in being transparent? You know, during, when, when folks are being let go, when there's a reduction in force, which is what that stands for, there's a lot of mistrust in the organization. I just recently, I was, I heard a story about one time in an organization, someone was let go, and the, it was an open-concept area. And so they, to get everybody out of the room, they, they bought the team doughnuts, and said, Hey, we have doughnuts available for you in the conference room. Well, what do you think the next time they bought doughnuts in, people thought, Oh, somebody's going to -- right? I mean, so you have to be, you have to be really, really aware of what you're doing there. But thoughts on that question about transparency and trust?

Amatoga Jeremie 41:33
Transparency and trust. And really, and, and it's really about, How do we, a coach has to help the leader identify, like, how they deliver bad news that results in emotionally charged situations. So, you know, like, that's really the coaching. So naturally, how do you do this? You know, we need to start there. And you also need to recognize what people need. So going back to the 4 Needs of Followers, this is a huge change. This can be disruptive to people's lives, their families. And so, you know, as a coach, we have to have a conversation about OK, stability. How do you, as a leader, what strengths do you have that provide stability for people in turbulent times? And what are some things that you can do and you can say that actually, you know, kind of disrupt that, or bring a little chaos, basically? But also, and How do you build trust? You know, how do you, what strengths do you have that build trust? How do you break them? You know, how do you break trust -- the things that you say or do -- and really talking about showing care? We can show care, and still be honest and transparent about this. RIFs happen all the time. But that doesn't make it any easier to deal with. Because, as humans, we think about, How, am I still going to be able to care for my family, pay my bills, live my lifestyle? You know, how all the, all the things that come with that. And so, as a coach, we have to help the leader come through that.

Jim Collison 43:22
In our book Strengths Based Leadership, we talk about those 4 Needs. We say in the book, 4 Needs of Followers; I've kind of, I've changed the wording on that to be the 4 Needs of Everyone, because everybody needs these things. But we talk about Trust, Stability, Compassion and Hope. And I think, Teresa, in that question, in an organization, any organization that's been through loss like that, in everybody's looking around, Am I next? What's going on? How's this going to work? I think, from a leadership perspective, you really need to focus on those 4 items and have, What does it mean, what, what does it mean to gain trust back? What does it mean to have compassion in these situations? What's stability look like, right? Now, I think those first 3 lead to hope. Hope is, is a, is a, is a response to the, to those 3 things. Because when people are hopeful, they'll do anything, when there's hope. I mean, they can, they'll jump through fire and walk on nails and, and work all kinds of crazy hours, which they're going to need some time off afterwards for that, but, you know, they, they, they'll do anything when they're hopeful. Right. And so there's just that.

Jim Collison 44:38
Amatoga, what I've really appreciated about our time together today is you really walked us through starting this legacy with What's on the horizon? And then we kind of worked our way back thinking through, like, What are some, what are some shorter-term things we can do as leaders? And then at the end, we talked about today -- What's very tactical? Having a good bank of questions; thinking, thinking through those 4 Needs of Everyone; having some insight. And I think it all starts with a coach. Right? It all starts with leaders getting someone to help them on this journey. Amatoga, as we wrap it up, your final thoughts on this? Do you want to put a bow on this for me?

Amatoga Jeremie 45:25
Yeah, it just, it just takes one powerful question. It just starts with one well-crafted, powerful question that makes the leader go, Huh. I never thought about it like that before.

Jim Collison 45:44
Well, Amatoga, thank you for, thanks for -- and by the way, I think a well-practiced question.

Amatoga Jeremie 45:50
Yes. Uh-huh. Well-practiced.

Jim Collison 45:53
Well-, a well-practiced question. Thank you for spending time with me today. Always great to be with you. And thanks for bringing your experience and your wisdom on this. I know the chat room, the chat room is appreciative as well, as they're, they're jumping in -- perspective is everything. And, and Justin, we recorded it for you. He just, he just got off a train and said, "Oh, I made it late!" Well, we recorded it for you. So Justin, thanks for coming anyways. Amatoga, thanks -- you hang tight for me one second. Let me close this up, and then we'll wrap it for today.

Jim Collison 46:27
With that, we'll remind everyone to take full advantage of all the resources we have available in Gallup Access -- my.gallup.com. Log in, and you can see what resources we have available for you there. Lots of resources available on gallup.com as well. Head out there, search by the topic that you're looking for, and we've, we've probably written about or might even have a webcast on it. So we'd love to have you take advantage of those. For coaching, master coaching or if you want to become a Gallup-Certified Strengths Coach -- we only mentioned coaching about 8,000 times today -- and so if you're interested in any of those or have any questions, we do coach coaches as well. You can contact us: coaching@gallup.com. We'd love to have you part of that process. If you want to join us for the 2024 Gallup at Work Summit, which, as we're recording this right now, is just 45 days away. And the, the, it's time, May 1 is the cutoff for the early-bird rate. So if you're listening live, you probably want to act fast. If you're listening to the recorded version, it's probably too late. But you can still join us virtually, or for the regular price, and we'd love to have you here in Omaha. So join us there: gallupatwork.com. Stay up to date on all our future webcasts by joining us in our Facebook or LinkedIn groups. You can find us on just about every social platform by searching "CliftonStrengths." If you enjoyed it, Like it, share it, hit the Subscribe buttons, all the things that kids tell you to do on YouTube -- Subscribe, hit Like, all that other stuff. Thanks for coming out today and being a part of this. If you're listening live, thanks for coming out. We'll see you guys next time. With that, we'll say, Goodbye, everybody.

Amatoga Jeremie's Top 5 CliftonStrengths are Strategic, Learner, Connectedness, Context and Positivity.

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