Using Your Strengths to Lead Through Change and Uncertainty

Below are audio and video plus a transcript of the conversation, including time stamps.

"When you're grounded in yourself, and you're not dislocated from who you are, I think that makes you better at dealing with things like change." Your talents -- especially those you've developed into strengths -- can play a key role in how effective you are at managing change, says Dean Jones, Global Talent Development Architect at Gallup. How does that happen, and how can you be more resilient when it comes to change? If you're a leader, what can you do to help your people navigate change? And what should  coaches focus on as they seek to help their coachees? Join Dean for a fresh look at strengths and resilience. 

I don't think that there's better strengths at handling change. I think that there's better people at handling change.

Dean Jones, 20:18

Sometimes in the middle of that change, we're so engaged in what's going to happen ... that we forget kind of who we are. ... And that's where ... sometimes strengths is a great resource that gives us back our sense of ourselves.

Dean Jones, 9:06

Jim Collison 0:00
I am Jim Collison, and welcome to The CliftonStrengths Podcast. On this podcast, we'll be covering topics such as wellbeing, teamwork, professional development and more. Now enjoy this episode. This episode was previously recorded on LinkedIn^® Live.

Meet Our Guest on This Episode

Jim Collison 0:18
Hello, everyone. I'm Jim Collison. I'm here with Dean Jones. And we want to welcome you to this LinkedIn Live. If you're joining us, we'd love to have your Top 5 in chat. That's kind of what we do here. And so, jump over to the comments, put your Top 5 in there, and we will be displaying those as we go along. So don't stop doing that. Like I mentioned before, I'm here with Dean Jones. Dean is the Global Talent Development Architect here and a Senior Learning Expert at Gallup. He's also the chair of our Diversity Council. And Dean, great to have you on this LinkedIn Live. Welcome!

Dean Jones 0:50
Yeah. Thanks for having me.

Jim Collison 0:51
So, Dean, that title sounds super important. But what does that really mean, from a day-to-day, day-to-day responsibilities? And, and what do you do for Gallup?

Dean Jones 1:00
You know, really, my job is, I spend every day thinking about, How do people learn and grow? How do people -- one of the things for me, I would say, through my whole life is I've just been really fascinated by how do people develop? And how do you, how do you have a life where you're learning and growing all the time, you're developing yourself all the time? So, and that's what I get paid to do at Gallup. I think about all of our associates around the world and think about how they're growing and how they're developing and what they need, and what's next for them.

What Does It Mean to "Lead Through Change"?

Jim Collison 1:31
I always appreciate that. You're a partner with me with our Certified Coaching community. You spend 6 or 8 times a year podcasting with me on Called to Coach about that. And I just love the fact that you just really care about them, and that you really care about their development. It really shines through on our Called to Coach Podcast. So thanks for doing that, Dean; always, always great to have you on those as well. Today, we're talking about how to use your strengths to lead through change and uncertainty. Not that we've had any of that in the last couple of years, probably not a very hot topic. But, but Dean, give us a little intro -- when we say "lead through change" and, and what do we really mean by that? Give us a little bit of an intro on that.

Dean Jones 2:11
Oh, I just think that right now, I mean, we're living through a period where there's sort of unprecedented change, right? I mean, we all talk about the pandemic, and what an abrupt and, change that was and how, how dislocating that is. But I think we're also living through all then the impacts that have kind of rolled out of that. So the way that work is changing in our society and where people are located for work and the kind of jobs that people have and the kind of work people do. You know, I just think are the, that's all changing at a really big pace. The other thing is, is all the kind of social impacts that that has for all of us, right. And so I think we're living in this time of just tremendous change.

Dean Jones 2:53
And I know that there's people out there that say, Oh, man, I love change; I think change is great. I think, you know, so one of the things I always say is, is the people that tell you that they love change, what they mean is, is they love change when they can see it coming, and they can control it. Right. You know, I think the kind of change that, you know, people don't see coming and that feels like they're just at the effect of it, that's change that's really hard for people, and it can be really emotional and really dislocating for people. So --

Resistance to Change

Jim Collison 3:25
Dean, I manage a community of about 14,000 Certified Coaches, and I managed them through years of change. And not everybody liked all the things, right. I mean, I heard that from the, you know, from the tip of the spear. We want to encourage you, if you're just joining us, drop your Top 5 in chat. We'll be taking your questions live. So if you have those, you can throw those in the chat as well. We'd love to see them. And thanks for joining us. Dean, you mentioned, you know, most people like to control the change that happens. So they, most of us probably resist change. Why do we do that? I mean, what is this, what is it about it that causes us to resist change?

Dean Jones 4:04
Yeah, great, great question. I think there's a lot of reasons. And, you know, there's some, some common reasons. By the way, if you're interested in this, I think there's a great article on, on, in the Harvard Business Review by Rosabeth Moss Kanter on this. She talks about, like, some of the common reasons that people resist change. And I think she's captured some of the ones that I think come up, not only organizationally, you know, change inside of organizations, change inside of companies, but some of the stuff that comes up personally -- you know, when people are dealing with things like divorce or job loss or big change in job responsibilities, or, you know, that kind of thing, right? Health issues. You know, one is, is that a big part of change that's hard for people is, is having, is when change is sudden, and when it feels like it surprises us and there's no time to react. When people have that sense that Hey, this change is happening to me, and I don't really have a say in it -- that's really hard for people, right?

Dean Jones 5:01
The, the level of uncertainty goes up in times of change. It's like, hey, and I think we all are comfortable dealing with a certain level of, of uncertainty, some more than less, right? But, you know, and for some of us, we thrive a little bit on that uncertainty, right? But there's kind of -- this is gonna sound like a funny thing to say, but -- there's predictable uncertainty, right? Hey, you know, if I'm an EMT, and I go to work, I'm probably going to get called to a few things. And, you know, that that kind of variety is going to be interesting for me. There's also the uncertainty that's greater than normal. And in times of change, that level of uncertainty goes up. And I think that's really hard for people. I also think sometimes, by the way, when people say, "Hey, I like change," what they mean is, "I like variety," not necessarily change, right? It's like, Hey, I'm interested in some variety in this, not just wholesale change, right,

Jim Collison 5:54
Dean, would that be predictable reliability? In other words, there might be 15 different things that can happen, but I know of them; they're not going to catch me off guard, right?

Dean Jones 6:03
Yeah. I mean, to use the EMT analogy, you know, if I'm an EMT, and I know I'm gonna go to work, I may not know what's going to happen that day. But, you know, I've trained for all of it, right? So I'm trained to do that. So there's some variety in what I'm doing. But I'm, but I'm set up for that variety, right? Part of, part of what's hard about change is that it can be really uncomfortable; all of a sudden, everything's different. It feels uncomfortable. I'm out of my routine, right? That's hard. Some of the things that people deal with in change -- and this is the part, I think, where strengths really makes a difference -- is, for people is some of the emotional parts of it, where I feel like, Hey, change is happening. And, you know, I'm worried I'm not going to be up for it. I'm, and I'm worried that in some ways I might be, I might be embarrassed as part of it. Right? It might be stuff where, Hey, everything that I was doing before they're going to tell me was wrong. You know, oh, that was all the bad stuff. And we don't want to do the bad stuff anymore, right?

Jim Collison 7:02
Or I believed in what was going to be wrong. I was anticipating, I was trying to predict. And I was wrong in that.

Dean Jones 7:10
Yeah, that's right. That's right. There's also stuff, you know, and you see this in organizations a lot, where people say, Hey, we're gonna make a change. And I was one owning the old system. So hey, does that mean everything I was doing was the bad stuff, and now we're gonna fix it, right? And it's very common, you see new leaders come in, or new managers come in, and they sort of, in order to establish themselves, they sort of invalidate what happened before. But that can be really hard for people that were invested in what happened before, whether it was the prior manager or leader or was it the team, right? So there's also this, this sense of competence that kind of is like, Hey, can I do this? Am I gonna be able to, to roll with this?

Dean Jones 7:48
We're, at Gallup (Jim, you know, this, but), we're implementing a new ERP system at Gallup, a new Enterprise Resource Planning system. And, you know, like, I've spent the last 2 weeks in training with, with, with, across, with basically every single one of our associates, right, every one of our employees around the world. And they, the question is always in the background, Hey, am I going to be able to master this? Hey, what is this going to mean? Am I going to be able to stay on top of this thing? So my point is, is that change can be a real threat for people. It's also incredibly dislocating for people. And, and it's the things that you deal with when you deal with change are, hey, you know, helping people to be able to anticipate change, to be able to see it coming; helping people with that sense of control, right? Can I, can I, you know, I know that this is happening. I may or may not have a say in whether this is happening, but how can I manage my way through it, so that I still have that sense of control? Right?

Dean Jones 8:49
And then change also, I think, you know, for people that are going through this kind of change, there's that loss of my sense of myself, right? Sometimes in the middle of that change, we, we're so engaged in what's going to happen and what I'm going to need to do and like that, that we forget kind of who we are. Who am I? What do I do? What do I contribute? What do I do best? You know, who am I? We kind of lose, we can, it's easy sometimes, in the face of change, to lose sight of all that, right. And that's where I think sometimes strengths is a great resource that gives us back our sense of ourselves, right, and who we are and what we do best and what we contribute and why we're there in the first place.

What Can Leaders Do to Help Employees Manage Change?

Jim Collison 9:26
We're talking about leading through change and using your strengths as we're talking about leading through change. If you have questions, we'd love to have you throw those in the chat; we'll be answering those live, Dean, how much of, in being a leader, how much of that responsibility is anticipating that change that's coming? We often think of change in the moment. I, hey, I get word that this is going to be different. But as leaders, what's our responsibility to try and look ahead to maybe soften the blow or to anticipate that change coming with those that we're leading?

Dean Jones 10:00
Yeah, great question, Jim. It's, you know, it's, so one of the things we've talked about for years are something we call the 7 Demands of Leadership, right? So what are those demands that we know that are the kind of those key qualities that we know leaders need to have, in order to serve the people that they're leading? Right? One of those is, we talk about is called Making Sense of, Making Sense of Experience. So are you somebody as a leader that can kind of scan the world out there, know what's happening, know what's coming, and part of your job as a leader is to kind of make sense of that for the people that you lead? To be able to say, Hey, this is how I see the world. This is how I see our work. This is the, and part of that is connecting it to the mission, but part of it is, is helping people to anticipate, hey, what's coming?

Dean Jones 10:46
Sometimes, you know, and you see leaders that are very, very good at that and help kind of shape that for people in a way that's really powerful, so people feel equipped and empowered, and you have that sense of, Hey, I, I can kind of anticipate what's going. Sometimes there are changes that happen abruptly, that you didn't see coming. And as a leader, it's, it's hard, and part of your job is, is to deal with the ripple effect or the repercussions of, hey, you know, we didn't see this coming. But our job is to handle it now. Right?

Dean Jones 11:18
So I always think for, for leaders, there's really 3 kinds of responsibilities right, around change. One is anticipation -- as much as possible, helping people to see it coming. Part of it is communication -- Hey, am I helping people understand the change? You know, during times of change, and you'll see this, you know, there's about a million different experts who have their principles of change management, right. But almost, the one thread through all of them is, Hey, through change, we got to overcommunicate; we got to communicate as much as possible. I was laughing because somebody asked me this week, as we've been going through this system change, "Hey, are we communicating too much?" I'm like, "There's no such thing." You know, no such thing as communicating too much, particularly in a time of change. So, you know, there's got to be a lot of transparency; there's got to be a lot of communication, because you're helping people process change. And people are going to process it at different rates. And, and they need time to be able to understand that and manage it.

Dean Jones 12:16
I do, I do say to people sometimes that if people, if people understood something or learned something the first time I said it to them, I wouldn't have a job. Right?

Jim Collison 12:26
Exactly. Exactly right.

Dean Jones 12:28
We got to hear it a few times. Right. So part of it is saying it over and over. The third thing is, is really, and this is I think one of the best things leaders can give people, is that sense of autonomy and competence and control, right? So anticipation, communication, control -- those are the 3 things that I think leaders can do as they move through a time of change. And part of it is, is giving people that sense of autonomy, that sense of control. I think when you help people get grounded again in their strengths and their talents, that helps people to, to regain that sense of, of control or that sense of certainty around things. So I think that's really, that's one of the most powerful things leaders can do, you know.

How Engagement, Strengths Contribute to Resilience

Jim Collison 13:10
That's great. Eduardo asks a great question that sets us up. We haven't mentioned strengths yet, and people are like, hey, what about strengths? So Eduardo says, Hey, Dean, are there any potential reports like the sales Leaders or Manager Report or research articles that's, that, with suggestions for how to use specific talent themes to support personal change and/or help clients with, with change resistance? Any thoughts on that, Dean?

Dean Jones 13:36
I think, you know, I'm gonna say something that's gonna seem a little basic. Do we have a specific report where there's like the Change Report? No, we don't have the Change Report. Right. But one of the things I think, if you're somebody that works with people inside of their strengths -- whether you're a manager, whether you're a coach, I think it's really looking at people's, Clifton, the regular CliftonStrengths 34 report through that lens of change, right? One of the things we know just kind of basically, right, so let's just, if we just start from the, from the basics here, we know that people who know their talent themes and use their strengths have a greater quality of life, they have higher wellbeing. We also know that they've got increased engagement. And one of the kind of cool pieces of research we did during the pandemic, you know, during 2020-2021, we were really looking at is we know, as you increase engagement, you also increase resilience, right? So people have more people, teams, organizations have more resilience when they have higher levels of engagement. Right?

Dean Jones 14:40
So we know strengths is a big way of contributing to that, right. And so, you know, so one of the big ways that you can lean into change, that you can lean into uncertainty, is to really understand your strengths. It gives you that sense of your own talents, what you do best. It's something that, one of the powerful ways that strengths helps with change and uncertainty is your strengths are familiar. So, and the landscape is unfamiliar, but you're, it's, who you are as familiar, and your strengths are familiar. They're also controllable. And probably the biggest thing I think is that they give you back your, they restore your sense of competence. When you go back to, OK, this is who I am; this is what I do, right? This is what I contribute. I, it helps to restore that sense of competence, which gives you a place to stand as you're starting to deal with the uncertainty in the circumstances around you.

Change and the 4 Needs of Followers

Jim Collison 15:36
I love that. I think Steve asks a great question. When we think about that changes, do people really resist change? Or do they more resist how it's imposed on them? And I think that's an interesting dichotomy. Right. Can you talk a little bit about that?

Dean Jones 15:50
I mean, I think that's, Steve, it sounds funny. This is my take on it. I think, you know, again, it's kind of, kind of the thing I said at the top of the, top of the session here. I think when we see change coming, and we feel like a big, big sense of control over it, it feels very manageable to us, right? It's, sometimes there's just change that happens that we don't have a say in and comes on us, you know, I will tell you, one of the worst things you can do as a leader is surprise people. And sometimes when there's big changes in organizations, also when we just announce something, we surprise people, right? It creates, you know, that creates a ripple effect for people. And we know that that kind of lack of stability, that, that, that kind of lack of stability, creates additional stress that doesn't necessarily need to happen. So part of it is really helping people to be able to think through that. Right. So I don't think that, you know, again, I think, you know, I think when people see that change coming, it's, there's less resistance there. I think the resistance comes from, Hey, I've got to restore my sense of control. I've got to restore my sense of, my understanding of what's happening, right. That's where the resistance is coming from. Right?

Jim Collison 17:04
Yeah, as we think of the 4 Needs of Followers from Strengths Based Leadership. And there's kind of a question to that here -- these, these 4 Needs of Followers and this idea of trust. I think oftentimes, resistance comes from a lack of trust. They've been misled in the past or burned or, you know, not given all the details. How important is that, from a leadership perspective, as well? And you've mentioned some of these, but as we think about that element of trust, leaders having the trust of those individuals to be able to deliver bad news, knowing it's, it's going to be done in a certain way. Can you talk a little bit about that?

Dean Jones 17:39
Yeah, that's right. I mean, so the, just the 4 Needs of Followers came out of our Strengths Based Leadership stuff. The 4 Needs of Followers are Compassion, Hope, Stability and, and Trust. And so, just, just to make sure everybody's in the same conversation, right. So yeah, I think trust is huge, right. And I think it's one of those things where, particularly for people in these kinds of parts of changes is, or times of change is that people have that sense, like, Hey, is this somebody that I feel like I can rely on? If there's been unpredictable behavior in the past, or if people feel like they're surprised by change, it's harder for people. Right.

Dean Jones 18:19
So I also think that having a leader -- I think the Compassion piece is super important -- is as you go through times of change, are you somebody that understands, hey, the impact that this is going to have and the emotional impact that, along with it? It's not, sometimes you see leaders that, that they communicate change, but they're not, they don't address any of the emotional impacts that go along with change. And I think that's a mistake, you know. So people really, people need to have that sense. It's like, hey, we know the change, we know the impact that this is going to have. And the impact is not just in the way we work; it's also an impact in, in, in, in our sense of self, as we go through that.

Are There Ideal Strengths for Managing Change?

Jim Collison 18:58
Dean, I have -- oh, for sure. Yeah. I love that. I have, I have Arranger, Activator and Adaptability all in my Top 10. I think I'm pretty good at change. Does, are there are a certain set of strengths that make us good at it, versus maybe some that, that aren't? Can you talk a little bit about that?

Dean Jones 19:15
I have a, you know, my opinion about that is I, so I'm about to lay one of my opinions on you. I just don't think -- I know that there's people that say, Hey, I have this theme or that theme, and that's gonna make me good at, that's gonna make me good at change or like that. Right. And again, I think when we're talking about real change versus variety, you know, I want to make sure that distinction is clear -- when we're talking about the real change that, that impacts people, I don't know that there's themes that are better at that. Right. I think that there are themes that roll with it, but I think it can be as hard to deal with change for somebody who's got Adaptability or Activator or some of those other themes that seem like they're positively disposed to change. You know, I have a very close friend right now who's going through a divorce, right? He's super high in Adaptability. And, but the emotional impact of it is huge for him. And so I, you know, it's not, it's not, not just because you've got a certain theme doesn't make you better disposed to do that.

Dean Jones 20:17
I think there's, so I don't think that there's better strengths at handling change. I think that there's better people at handling change. I think it's more about do, as you go through change, it's things like, Do you, do you know and you understand and are aware of your own talent themes? Do you have good self-awareness as a human being? Right? I think when you're grounded in yourself, and you're not dislocated from who you are, I think that makes you better at dealing with things like change. I think if you've taken the time to develop your talent themes into strengths, I think that makes a huge difference is it's not just I know what my talents are, but have I, have I invested in them? Am I focusing on them? Am I turning them into strengths that I can use? Because that leads then, I think, to things like strategies where you can say, Hey, I'm anchored in my strengths. I've got strategies to help me deal effectively with stuff. And so that, if I know kind of what those personal strengths-based strategies are, that helps me deal more effectively and productively with, with the stress and the uncertainty that comes with change, right.

Dean Jones 21:23
I think also, that great self-awareness really helps, I think, in times of duress. You know, change creates a huge amount of duress, a huge amount of stress for people, right. And when we're under pressure, I think it's harder to manage the expression of our themes and to regulate our themes, right. So I think, as we think about the, you know, one of the things that helps us is the more we've taken the time to understand our own talents and strengths, the more we've developed talents into legitimate strengths that we use, the better our self-awareness is going to be. So when, when change happens, and we're under pressure, we're better at being able to, to express our talents and strengths in really healthy ways, and also to regulate them, so they don't get all over everybody. Right. So I think that's really helpful.

Talented People Like Pressure

Jim Collison 22:13
I, going, and I was kind of making fun of myself in that example. I've actually said that in the past, and yet, there's been moments where I haven't been in the right position, or I've had repeated stressful situations happening one on top of the other. And the answer wasn't necessarily, Well, just lean into it harder with your strengths. Right? Can you, can you talk a little bit about that, that arena? Because I think that there was a lot there right now, Dean, where it's been one hit after another. And maybe just leaning in isn't the right, isn't the right answer. Can you talk about maybe some strategies there?

Dean Jones 22:53
Yeah, there's a difference between -- yeah, this is really good -- it's, there's a difference between leaning into your strengths and just applying more pressure, right? You know, or just applying more force, right. So, you know, I'm gonna say a funny thing. I think this, this feels a little, hopefully, it feels intuitive to people, but talented people actually like pressure, right? So talented people actually like that moment where preparation meets opportunity, right? Where it's like, Hey, I've been training for this. OK, it's the pressure performance. I'm up to bat. Give me the ball, coach, whatever. I'm mixing my sports analogies. But you get the point, right? Like, there's that moment where it's like, Hey, I've trained for this. I know I got the talent for this. Watch what I can do. So talented people actually like a little bit of pressure, right? They like that moment, where they can say, Hey, man, I am going to show you now, right?

Dean Jones 23:50
But when you're in the wrong job, or you're in the wrong situation, where your talents are not a fit for the opportunity, that's when it's, pressure really becomes stress for people, right? Because it's not, Hey, watch what we can do. It's like, Hey, what I've got, it doesn't feel relevant here. Or I can, I can press myself as much as possible. But my, my talents, the talents and the things I can do aren't necessarily going to contribute here. Or you're going to ask me to do things that I don't really have talent, so I got to reach down and pull up all the reserves of what I got, and it may not be enough, right? And I think that's where it's hard for people. So it's trying to figure out, hey, hey, how do I connect what I know I can do and what I'm good, good at, how do I connect those things to the moment? Right? And to be able to figure out what that is. We do, you know, sometimes it's, this is where it's hard sometimes, where you're in the middle of a companywide reorganization, you know. Or all of a sudden they've, we've decided, hey, this, we're going to have these people do this thing, right? And you got to figure out like, OK, hey, how am I going to connect with that? How do what I've got to give and my talents have to connect with that and be useful in that particular situation?

Jim Collison 25:03
Dean, a comment from the chat room. They said, Nobody outside the U.S. probably got any of those sports metaphors. It's OK. Even in the U.S. we may not have gotten those.

Dean Jones 25:14
I use a lot of sports analogies; I know nothing about sports. OK?

The Role of Coaching in Navigating Change

Jim Collison 25:18
Dean, when we think about coaching for a second, in the context of this, oftentimes I know when I'm under the greatest amount of stress, and let me use the term "stress" as your, you just, getting someone else involved in this conversation, still thinking about my strengths and navigating through these changes, has been super helpful. Can you talk about the role of coaching? Or we may have Certified Coaches listening to this. How you would encourage them in helping people navigate these waters?

Dean Jones 25:48
Yeah, I think it's the same, some of the same things we talked about before. But I think, as a coach, you know, you're outside of the situation, right? So one is that one of the great things you can do is to help people to anticipate change. I don't know if you've had this experience, but, you know, I've certainly had this experience coaching people that I can hear, Hey, change is coming. They start to tell me about what's going on, I can hear change is coming. And helping them anticipate that change is really useful. I think, also a big piece of, that, that coaches can do is help people then get regrounded in who they are and, and what their talents are and what their contributions are. That it is not to be underestimated the power of coaching to help really get people grounded again in Who are you? What do you contribute? What are your talents? What is, you know, so that they've got that.

Dean Jones 26:40
I also think that, sometimes, and I think this is a mistake, sometimes, in our coaching community is, I think coaches sometimes focus, are focused a ton on helping people understand their talent themes and build self-awareness. I think that's good. But I think where coaching really makes a difference is helping people apply their talents and strengths in meaningful ways in their, in their work and in their life, right. And so one of the biggest things I think coaches, strengths coaches do is help people come up with those strategies for applying their strengths. You know, when you're somebody, I think it's part of being a professional, right, is that you can walk in the door and say, "This is how I work. And this is how to set me up for success," right. And when you know your own talents and strengths, you're better equipped to be able to articulate that. You can walk in the door and say, "Hey, this is what I do," right? And particularly in times of change, to be able to be clear headed about that, to be able to say, "Hey, these are my strategies."

Dean Jones 27:40
So as a coach, the work you do with a client to be able to say, hey, let's not just help you understand your talents and strengths or develop your self-awareness -- I'm not deprecating that in any way; that's useful. But also, but I don't think the job ends there. Right? The job really starts once we can say, Yep, I know who I am. I get it. I love myself, I appreciate myself. Now, let's talk about how I'm going to apply this in the world in meaningful ways. And what are the strategies I'm going to use? And how am I going to make sure I'm set up for success?

Dean Jones 28:11
I'll tell you one thing, you know, one of the things we do with new associates, new employees at Gallup, in their first 6 months, is part of the, the, part of the thing we say to them is, Hey, your job, one of your key jobs when you join Gallup is, we want you to really, in a, in a really meaningful way, understand your own talents and strengths, and then go train everybody. So you got to be out there training your team and training your manager, right? Here's who I am. This is how I work. This is how I think about things. Right? This is the stuff I lean into. And the more great self-awareness you've got, the better equipped you're going to be to train people. But if you don't do that job at training people, then you're going to be in trouble, right? Because nobody's going to know. So, and help, and strengths coaches helping people to be able to do that, so they start to condition their environment around that, really makes a difference.

Jim Collison 29:00
That's great. I always appreciate that. And that's not just, by the way, that doesn't happen for the first 6 months; we spend a lot of time, when changes is happening of working with each other, coaching each other around. and I find that sometimes just having my problems not be my coach's problems are great insight into getting clear feedback on that, right. We're not in this together; you can see certain things that I can't see, because I'm buried in them. And I always appreciate that feedback from coaches as well. Dean, thanks for taking the time today. 30 minutes just flies by when we're together, but thanks for taking the time today to be here. I appreciate it. Thanks for coming out.

Dean Jones 29:42
Yeah, you're welcome. My pleasure.

Jim Collison 29:44
We want to remind everyone that we're moving these. These LinkedIn Lives are now available in our CliftonStrengths Podcast, so if you haven't subscribed to that, head out to your favorite podcast player, search "The CliftonStrengths Podcast" -- I know, super original -- "The CliftonStrengths Podcast"; you can find this out there. Subscribe to that. And we'd love to have you join us in the journey, as we move along there as well. Thanks for coming out today. Make sure you're subscribed to the CliftonStrengths page on LinkedIn while you're there. Take care. With that, we'll say, Goodbye, everybody. Thank you so much for listening to today's episode of The CliftonStrengths Podcast. Make sure you like and subscribe wherever you listen, so you never miss an episode. And if you're really enjoying this podcast, please leave a review. This helps us promote strengths globally.

Dean Jones' Top 5 CliftonStrengths are Activator, Focus, Woo, Strategic and Relator.

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