Trusting the Science: The Tech World and CliftonStrengths®

"People who are not aware of their strengths ... work extremely hard to kind of undermine and underplay them, which is sabotaging your own potential." So says Vivasvan Shastri. In the technology world, one key to overcoming this lack of awareness is to "understand the deep research that [is] behind" CliftonStrengths -- in other words, to share its scientific roots. Viva, a Gallup-Certified Strengths Coach and a tech executive with 23 years' experience who is currently Engineering Director at Cisco in Bengaluru, India, joined the webcast recently. Learn from Viva about maximizing your (and your team's) potential, what "peak experiences" and loving/loathing tell you about your strengths, and how your strengths can enhance your wellbeing.

Gallup Called to Coach Webcast Series -- Season 9, Episode 53.

 

Below is a full transcript of the conversation, including time stamps. Full audio and video are posted above.

There is no bigger disservice that you can do to yourself than undermining your own strengths.

Vivasvan Shastri, 8:25

What strengths really makes you understand is that people will have edges, and we want people to have those edges because that is what really makes them unique.

Vivasvan Shastri, 18:56

Once you don't seek for uniformity, once you don't seek to be the judge and the jury, trying to make everyone the same -- that will provide you the space to really appreciate the potential of everyone.

Vivasvan Shastri, 54:50

Jim Collison 0:00
I am Jim Collison, and this is Gallup's Called to Coach, recorded on October 19, 2021.

Jim Collison 0:19
Called to Coach is a resource for those who want to help others discover and use their strengths. We have Gallup experts and independent strengths coaches share tactics, insights and strategies to help coaches maximize the talent of individuals, teams and organizations around the world. If you're listening live, love to have you join us in our chat room. There's just a link right above me up there on the live page that will take you to that YouTube instance. Sign in with, in the chat room, and you can ask your questions there. If you have questions after the fact -- and many of you do, because you use this email address -- send us an email: coaching@gallup.com. Don't forget to subscribe on your favorite podcast app or on YouTube right there, using the buttons below. Deepanjan Deb is our host today; we call him "DD" -- so we'll refer to him that for the rest of the show -- is a market leader for Gallup and works in the area of behavioral economics for education as well as corporate institutions in consultative sales, product sales, digital sales, marketing and strategy of Gallup's offerings in the India subcontinent. He's been instrumental in developing and growing the business of Gallup in India and Singapore. His primary area of interest entails research in the applications of behavioral economics, in consulting, data analytics, as well as helping Gallup research and through his sales role. He's a Sales Partner for Gallup for all our India accounts. DD, welcome to Called to Coach. Great to have you.

Deepanjan Deb 1:40
Thanks a lot, Jim. And it's great to have the Called to Coach for India after, after a long, long time. You know, we had, we've been doing great show before the COVID. But it's, thanks a lot, Jim, for your time, and especially at the time zone that you are in, to help us launch this again for India.

Jim Collison 1:56
Well, it's, it's great having you, DD, I always appreciate it -- and I'm glad you're here with us. I did fail to read your Top 5. Let me do that really fast because the folks in the chat will want to know, so Context, Individualization, Learner, Strategic and Achiever. We have a fabulous guest who's joining us back, I think joined us a couple of years ago and back for repeat. DD, why don't you take a second and introduce our guest for us.

Meet Our Guest on This Episode

Deepanjan Deb 2:22
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much, Jim. And, you know, ladies and gentlemen, it gives me great pleasure to introduce Vivasvan Shastri -- we call him "Viva" lovingly. He has been a Gallup veteran, in terms of, you know, getting certified with us long time back and has done some phenomenal work in this space. This is his second time with us. And I couldn't have thought of a better guest to reintroduce Called to Coach for India, you know, other than Viva. So he's, he's a technology executive with over 23 years of experience spanning both products and services. He has, he has global experience, having led engineering as, and product management in Europe, China, Latin America and India. He's an ICF-certified ACC coach. And most importantly, he has, you know, been applying the Gallup StrengthsFinder in the area of technology in Cisco. And he'll share his insights today. And interestingly, he's also a Lego Serious Play facilitator. So welcome, Viva. It's a pleasure to have you with us. I will not read out your Top 5, but I'll let you share your Top 5 and your first thoughts on, you know, coming back to the show.

Vivasvan Shastri 3:35
Well, it's great to be back on the show. Right? I think it's a good way to signal that we are back, right, to be honest, right? Called to Coach at least is back. See, for me, I think COVID has been a time where we did get a lot of opportunities to use our strengths, right? For me, I am, No. 1 is Context. Right? So I lead with Context to figure out, because we came into an uncharted territory, right? We didn't know how to react; this was the first time that we experienced the pandemic as well. So, for me, Context was very important to understand history and to learn from it, right? I think only when you know your past is when you can conquer your future. So I think Context was very, very important to me.

Vivasvan Shastri 4:14
For me, Intellection gave me those private moments to reflect on what is working for me, what is not working for me; what is working for my team and what is not working for my team, right. So those little moments with myself to think over, right, you know, what I can change and what needs to be changed personally as well for my team was really helpful. For me, I'm big on Learner, and like COVID gave us this opportunity, a platform to kind of rally up our skills. Right? So it was like a kid in Disneyland, right? I had so many of these digital programs available to learn, right. So Learner played out extremely well for me.

Vivasvan Shastri 4:49
For me, it was Maximizer as well, right. Maximizer gave me the focus and the drive on what can be better post-COVID. Right. So while we were still struggling with COVID, I was always thinking of, How best can we use this as an opportunity, right? Whereas the toll on human tragedy was huge, but what's the best way to make use out of it, right, so that we come even stronger? Right. So I think those are a brief preview of my strengths and how I really use them.

CliftonStrengths Science in the Technology Space

Deepanjan Deb 5:18
And it's, it's so interesting to note that, you know, I lead with Context as well, and, you know, and two people with Context as No. 1 will always go into the past, but we'll try not to. But my first question to you is that, you know, Viva, you have been a strengths practitioner, you know. And the full philosophy of strength talks about one basic concept: what is right with people, and to see, to see the world through the lens of what is right, rather than what is wrong, right. Now, because we are in, in the pandemic times, and I would want to get your first thoughts around, How have you seen, you know, the whole philosophy of strengths pan out from -- in the technology space? First of all, you know, before pandemic, and how has, have you seen that whole thing change after the pandemic, especially with, you know, managing teams remotely? And, and the first section, and then we'll go deeper into it.

Vivasvan Shastri 6:17
Yeah, so first of all, really, I think strengths philosophy is very strong in the techie space, right? Because I think most of the techies see this as science. Right? And techies love science, right? I think for them, this is kind of the best of science and best of human psychology coming together. And that is why, right, for me, when I coach people, right, they never have any questions on StrengthsFinder. Right? They never kind of ask me that, "How did you figure this out?" Right? Like, you know, for them, it is almost like magic, right? For them, it is science coming out there to help them. Right. And that is why strengths has a huge adoption in the techie community. Right? I think that, for me, is not a challenge at all.

Vivasvan Shastri 6:56
One, one of the things where strengths helps techies is, right, that many of times, techies used a lot of data points to kind of grow themselves. And what I have seen is that people who don't know their strengths, you know, they work very hard to undermine them. Right? For example, I was just coaching a very senior architect. And he had Significance No. 1. And for him, the problem was that, you know, he kept getting feedback from people around him, like, "Hey, you're too much of a showman," right? "You want to do something big, so that the limelight is on you." So he was working very hard for one year to undermine Significance. Right? It was a raw strength for him. And since he was not aware that it was a strength -- for him, he thought that it was his weakness, and he was working overtime to undermine it.

Vivasvan Shastri 7:44
And that is where, if we can make people aware of what their strengths are, right, you've set them free, right? You've set them free to kind of, one, be aware of who they are, so that they can first filter out what is good feedback, what is the bad feedback, right? Where it could well be the case that Significance needs to be kind of mature in this individual's case. But you can't undermine; you cannot really stop being who you are. Right? And that is a big change that I've seen. I've seen people who are not aware of their strengths; they work extremely hard to kind of undermine and underplay them, right, and which is sabotaging your own potential, right? There is no bigger disservice that you can do to yourself than undermining your own strengths. And that is, like, you know, one big trend that I have seen in the techie space, pre-COVID and post-COVID, right.

Vivasvan Shastri 8:29
I think, pre-COVID, like, you know, people didn't focus so much on themselves, right. I think, like, you know, most of the techies used to just go by life, right? I mean, things used to happen. And, like, you know, they used to jump careers; they used to learn technology; find cool jobs; build cool products. But I think what COVID made people do is to kind of really focus on themselves. And that is where strengths come into play, right? When you put the glass, the lens on yourselves and not be distracted by the world around you. Right?

Vivasvan Shastri 9:01
So I think that was a silver lining that COVID did, like, you know, wherein basically you really focus on yourself and what is working for you versus what is not working for you. Right. Plus, also, since you're working from home, you had a digital record of where you spend your time, right? You had your WebEx meeting, your calendars were there, so you could really audit, like, you know, where you're spending your time, where you're using your strengths. Life didn't happen to you, right? You had to design your day, right? And you got the opportunity to really design your day using those strengths. And that is where I think a lot of individuals used strengths to redesign their life, to redesign their work and how they work and how they live with their communities. I think that was basically a big change that happened during the COVID phase as well.

Vivasvan Shastri 9:42
Secondly, from a manager standpoint, right, at least in the context of India, this whole thing of work from home had a certain amount of stigma associated with it. Right. It was not called out but, like, you know, there was almost a bias in people's head that in case you're working from home, that means you're not productive. That means you're not effective. What COVID has done is it has removed that bias. Right? So I think that is the one, one way that we will change in India, especially the techie community will change in a very big way. Right? I think it was not so much the case in the U.S., where work from home had adoption, right, had significant adoption. But in India, it was, right, almost work from home was on exception; you needed approvals to work from home, right. It was difficult to work from home full time, right? Even if you have an elderly to care for, right, or kids to take care of. It is a difficult thing, right. And a lot of people did leave the workforce because of these conditions, right? Because the flexibility was not there.

Vivasvan Shastri 10:40
Now, with COVID, I think the bias has gone away, right? People are more open. Managers have realized and learned from their own experience that teams can be very effective even when they work virtually. So I think that is one big change that COVID has brought about in the way we work.

Deepanjan Deb 10:55
That's a very, very, I know, two very interesting points that you mentioned is, you know, that the bias has been removed, No. 1. And second is, you mentioned something very interesting, it's called, you said, "designing your own day." Now, when you look at this, you know, as I've been, you know, speaking with a lot of managers in the corporate space in the last year and a half, and many of them, you know, have been telling me that, you know, "It's difficult to monitor my, what my teammates are doing." And, you know, as it rightly, as you said. Like, so there are a lot of things which is, you know, traditionally things are in our mind that, you know, we have to be, you have to see people to ensure that they're productive. But the philosophy of strengths actually allows you to do what you really are good at. And that is where the whole, you know, it contradicts the fact that you have to see people or micromanage people to ensure that they're, that they're doing the best of, you know, creating the best version of themselves.

Maximizing Your Potential in Any Work Environment

Deepanjan Deb 11:58
Now, as we go down to the deeper discussion of, How do you, you know, see, or create or manage high-, high-performing teams? Now, we come to a very important point, Viva, around, how have you seen or how does the StrengthsFinder allow to, to each, for each individual, to maximize his or her potential in different environments? Now, when I'm saying, "different environments," I say that, you know, we were all working, used to a certain style of life. For example, I was traveling from airport to airport, meeting clients. Now all of those meetings for me happen over a Zoom call or a Teams call or a phone call. And, and it's equally productive, right? We know, it has taught us the reality that things can happen.

Deepanjan Deb 12:46
Now, productivity is something that is dependent on what you're doing, and are you naturally liking what you're doing? Right. So how have you seen those changes -- small, small changes -- manifest in your teams? And have you kind of observed any, you know, performance gaps, or, and if "Yes," how have you managed them, being a strengths coach?

Vivasvan Shastri 13:08
Yeah. So I think one is, I think what, what COVID has done is just humbled many managers, right, managers who used to believe that they need to get a micromanage and monitor. They know that it's no longer sustainable; it's no longer feasible. Right, when everyone's working from home, there is no way that you can monitor everyone. So that every manager has designed, like, kind of a paradigm, what I call as "freedom within a framework." That is, you define a framework with which you want your team to work with, and then you set people free. Right?

Vivasvan Shastri 13:38
What I typically do with my team is basically to set priorities every Monday, saying that, "Guys, this is what our team is going to focus on this week." Right? And then we have frequent check-ins, right? I think once a week, we just check in, like, you know, what is working for people? Where do they need help? Stuff that they love, right? I think, one very simple, one very simple question you can ask our employees that, What is it that you loved in the last week? Right? What is it that you love doing? Right? What is it that you loathe doing? Right? What happened that kind of really ticked you off or drained you? Right? And then you realize where their strengths are, and then you go to supply more and more activities or work which is aligned to what they love. See where you can provide some relief, when it comes to "loathe." Right?

Vivasvan Shastri 14:23
It's not that you can completely remove the loathe away, but can you kind of partner them with somebody else in the team for whom that loathe could be a love? Right, so asking these two very simple questions: What did you love? What did you loathe? Right. Making sure that people are aligned on priorities, right. I think coming back to what Gallup says, right? I think the first pain point every leader has to solve is that there should be absolute clarity, in terms of what are key expectations from work, right? If you ask people, Do you really know what is expected from you at work? Like many people will give an iffy answer. Like, yes, I'm sure 60% like, you know, but the rest is a gray zone, and priorities keep changing. So I'm trying to figure it out myself as well.

Vivasvan Shastri 15:04
But I think if you can provide clarity as much as possible -- so what I do is that I just put on a WebEx chat with my team. I just put that, folks, these are the top 3 priorities for us as a team, right, as a leadership team. So that way, basically, you have those clear, clear priorities set out, and then I check in. I mean, and plus, I have moved to audio calls, actually. One of the things my Intellection helps me is that, for short conversations, you don't need to set up a WebEx meeting; you don't have to block people's calendars 30 minutes or an hour, right. You know, just call them, and those are far efficient ways, because you will stay to the point; there is more of a human connection, just audio as well. Right? '

Vivasvan Shastri 15:40
So just have short audio calls. And then basically, you can use them to check in, like, "Hey, what is working for you? Do you need any help?" Two, three questions, if a leader learns to ask, right. One is, "What did you love?" "What did you loathe?" And "Where do you need help?" If you can just keep asking these three questions to your employees, you will be fine. You don't need to do anything dramatically different.

Managers as Coaches

Deepanjan Deb 16:01
Absolutely. And, you know, the whole point around making this efficient through StrengthsFinder is asking the right questions, right. You know, how do you move into conversation-based coaching as managers, and as Gallup research has, has shown that, you know, employees are looking at their managers more as mentors or coaches rather than bosses. Right? And StrengthsFinder allows them to, you know, do this. Viva, just because you, you belong to the domain of technology, and recently, one of my clients from, you know, the technology space sent us a very nice note around how, you know, he has seen strengths change in his, in his, in his company, and he shared a lot of data points around the impact the StrengthsFinder had on, you know, overall company, you know, efficiency. And one of the points that he mentions is that supervisors have learned the art of listening more than lecturing through StrengthsFinder.

Deepanjan Deb 17:07
And the second point that he mentioned is managers are no more micromanagers, but they've come up with a coaching mentality. Instead of answering questions, the leadership now encourages discussions by asking good questions. So I would want you to draw some insights on these, you know, on these points. Have you seen any, you know, you know, in your experience?

Vivasvan Shastri 17:29
So the first thing, the moment you focus on strengths, it will cue you to listen more, because you're trying to identify what is working for a person, right, what is giving, like the, you know, them the motivation, the inspiration. So you will go into a default listening mode the moment you focus on strengths, right. Because the StrengthsFinder and reports will give you strengths, but you're looking for how people are actually living them out, right. So you will get into the listening mode the moment you have the strength orientation, right, you will be cued in; in a way, strengths kind of cues you into listen more for sure. Right? That is the one part, basically. So you will be a far better listener. '

Vivasvan Shastri 18:07
Secondly, the assumption that many leaders have, and so here you have to keep in mind that in the technology space, many of the people who become managers don't become managers because they have great potential to become a manager, because -- but they become managers because they were absolutely great at technology. Right? They built some cool products. So they have, you know, they have no, like, no, they have no tool set, they have no mindset to be a leader, right? They still come from a tech space, right? And so that is where strengths does give you a good framework and also humbles you to understand that individuals will not be completely well-rounded and balanced. Right, as leaders, you expect that every individual in your team, like, you know, will be completely well-rounded, they'll be balanced, they'll be equal. What strengths really, really makes you understand is that people will have edges, and we want people to have those edges because that is what really makes them unique. And you as the leader have to focus on the team being well-rounded. Right.

Vivasvan Shastri 19:10
So I think it is a little bit of a humbling experience for leaders. They for sure will listen more; for sure, they will realize that it is very unreasonable to expect everyone to be well-rounded, right. Whereas in the technology space, you can judge people on their technical expertise and can expect that everyone has a certain level of skills. But, right, you will realize that there is more than this skill set an individual has on your team.

Deepanjan Deb 19:35
Great. This has been a very, very deep conversation to start off with around, you know, Viva, your experience of coaching people and, you know, understanding our science is so, so very helpful for us. Jim, you had a, you have any questions to ask Viva, you know, from your experience of, you know, having this so long now -- having seen this for so long?

Collaboration at Work: Loving vs. Loathing

Jim Collison 19:57
Yeah. Viva, let me, let me ask you, as we think about teams and team collaboration, and there's one thing about a manager becoming a coach and coaching teams, but what have you seen work in getting collaboration to work -- we call it the "Power of 2," inside of teams with CliftonStrengths? So getting that, getting those teams to kind of come together on their own, without necessarily having to have the manager at the front all the time doing that. Can you talk a little bit about that?

Vivasvan Shastri 20:29
See, I, well, Jim, right, I think there are things that we have to do, which we loathe, right, which we don't really enjoy much. And that is what drives disengagement. That is what consumes a lot of energy. That is what makes us very skeptical about work. If we can empower our teams to find someone else on the team for whom that loathe could be a thing they love, right? That itself can be a very liberating experience for people. Right? So that is one like, you know, and then you don't need to supervise or make the connections, right?

Vivasvan Shastri 20:58
And for me, I do rituals, wherein we call out strengths, right? I think people believe in their strengths more when they hear it from other people, right? It's an unfortunate thing, but it is true, right? You can give them a report. And they'll say, "Yes, yeah, like, you know, this looks OK." But when they hear it from someone else, right, I think they really come to believe in it. So I'll do a ritual in my team, where we call out the strengths of each one of them. Right? And at times, there are simple things, right? Somebody loves to work on an Excel, right? They geek out on macros, right? The moment you have to create a complex pivot, you can engage them, right. And for them, that is the best thing that could happen to them at work.

Vivasvan Shastri 21:34
So just talking about strengths, and then calling out on the strengths of every individual, right? People are pleasantly surprised about the compliments they get around their strengths, because since strengths are so natural to you, you may not think that it is something big or great that you're doing. But when somebody else recognizes it, right, there's glimpses of excellence that we talk about, right? Right, when people identify those glimpses of excellence, and when they call it out, I think that is the moment where people really will latch on to this thing. So doing a simple exercise within your team to just call out the strengths that you have seen in action.

Vivasvan Shastri 22:10
And don't wait for a manager to call it out. Right? I think, frequently, there's an expectation that you need to be a leader to call it out, or it has to be some kind of a recognition that has to go along with the strength and action. But you can just acknowledge it that, "Hey, I saw you doing this. And it was just amazing," right? "For me it was something just amazing, right?" And you don't have to identify the strength; you don't need the language; you don't need the lens. You can just call out the action and appreciate the action. That itself goes a very big way.

Jim Collison 22:34
Yeah, I think that's good advice. Lisa, asks, and Viva, I'll throw this to you as well. So from the chat room, How do you incorporate design thinking into your coaching and workshops?

Vivasvan Shastri 22:45
Oh, yes.

Jim Collison 22:46
We, by the way, we would do this with our high school students in our internship programs, bringing them in, getting them because they were doing software, you know, design and development. And in design thinking, I think it gives you a good opportunity -- I, and I won't spoil; I'm gonna have you say it first, and then I'll tell you kind of how we did that. But do you have any thoughts on that? You want -- a thing you want to add to that?

Vivasvan Shastri 23:09
Oh, no, no. So for me, I'm a design thinker at heart first. I, actually, I first started my design thinking journey, and then I went into coaching. And I think, you know, there's a very popular book called Positive Intelligence today, which is doing the rounds in the coaching community. And that book is a great example of using design thinking for coaching. Right? It is, in fact, a manual for using design thinking for coaching, where you lead with Empathy, right? Where you really, first you need to empathize with yourself, right? Then you have to empathize with your teams, right? And that is where coaching begins, right? You're not trying to sympathize; you're not trying to offer solutions. But your first step, it begins with just Empathy building. Once you have built Empathy, then you will build awareness of what is it that you want to solve for, right?

Vivasvan Shastri 23:53
Like, you know, that comes to the second phase of design thinking. And once you have a contract with the client, right, that, hey, this is what together we'll try to solve for -- and that is where you can really branch out and look at all the options that you have. You can get into this beautiful exploration phase where you can come up with a zillion ideas. You can idea bomb, right, if you will, as many ideas to which, right? And then finally, towards the end of the coaching conversation, right, you will, like you will have an agreement to prototype something, right. That you, you first begin the coaching conversation with Empathy. You get a contract with your client, basically, in terms of what do you want to solve for? You use the tools of design thinking to jointly explore with the client on what they, they would be willing to try out.

Vivasvan Shastri 24:35
And lastly, you end the coaching conversation with a pilot that they will do. Right? So it kind of very neatly fits into the ICF framework as well, if you really look at design thinking and the ICF framework, it kind of, like you know, very neatly flows in. So, so for me, the journey to be a coach was kind of really hard because I was a design thinker, right, because a lot of these tools I had access to way before.

Jim Collison 24:59
We have an Individual Development Plan and, built inside kind of our, kind of our methodology and the teaching that we do. And if you actually superimpose design thinking on top of the individual development plan, you know, come up with a goal; work through your reports; pull some things out. Those are the, those are your statements, right? Kind of create, I want to, I want to, I want to prototype -- and the prototype is really just trying this theme, like, OK, what could I do to insert this theme in here or these combination of themes? And so I love that design thinking question. I think there's so many, so many places that fits in so well. So thanks for answering that. DD, I didn't want to, I didn't want to hijack it. What else do you have?

Deepanjan Deb 25:38
No, no, no, absolutely, it was a beautiful question. No, no, absolutely relevant to what Viva was doing. You know, Viva, I will just go into a very simple discussion around the fact that, when we look at strengths and its application, there are two stages to it. One is a mature stage discussion. So for example, we are all pract -- we have been all practicing into it. And, the first, the, and the toughest stage, according to me, is the stage where you have people and you're making them aware of it at the very beginning.

CliftonStrengths Validated via Peak Experiences

Deepanjan Deb 26:14
And here I'll bring into it, and you know, I was reading this book by Paddy Upton, who was -- it's India, and I have to bring in the cricket reference; you know, Paddy Upton was, you know, has been one of the best performance coaches in cricket. And he was India's performance coach when it won the Cricket World Cup in 2011. And has been associated with also a number of IPL teams. He wrote a beautiful book called, The Barefoot Coach. And as I was reading through it, chapter 5 is a chapter which says, "Playing to Strengths." And I was reading it, and I was thinking, like, Wow! And then I found that he mentions Gallup and how he has kind of applied the philosophy of Gallup around, How do you maximize what is right with you rather than what is wrong with you?

Deepanjan Deb 26:59
And in that, in that chapter, he talks about the fact that, when it comes to focusing on strengths versus weakness, if you, if we all go back to our childhood, and if you just pause and observe -- and even some of us who are parents look at things in a way that if your child has got a report card, first thing that comes to your mind is where he or she has got not the highest mark, but the relatively lower marks, right. But the StrengthsFinder tells you is that if somebody is good in English, why not focus there? That's where you maximize, right? So when you encounter people for the first time, right, now, I know there are certain organizations which are, which are, which have become very, very mature. But people for them to understand and make them aware, right, it's a psychology shift. Yeah. How do you do that for the, for the first time, you know, and how have you seen that change? And has it, has it matured with time?

Vivasvan Shastri 28:00
So I think the, see the first thing, right, but the first thing you can do as a coach, right, to bring into strengths is to talk, to talk about the peak experiences of clients, right? So I always ask the client that, "Can you tell me a 5-minute story of what your peak experience was? Like, you know, what was your best day at work? Or what was the most memorable day in your life?" And then I try to look for evidences of strengths. Right. And that is where, right, I think, to make people appreciate their strengths, I think they have to appreciate from their own experience, right? Like, no, well, there is science. And like, you know, we have tons of white papers. And there is this great book by Paddy Upton, where like, where he talks about how strengths helped the Indian cricket team win the World Cup. But I think you need to really experience it yourself to believe in strengths.

Vivasvan Shastri 28:49
So I always start with a peak experience, right? I just invite the client to tell me a 5-minute story, like "Tell me about your best day at work." And therein where I look for evidences of strengths. And once I have that story, right, then I revisit the story 5 times right, your Top 5 strengths are there. So we go and look for evidences on how this strength helped out. So I think talking about your peak experiences, talking about that is one way for a person to really realize your strength. Because that is when you will come to know that to succeed, you have only one ammunition: Your superpowers are your strengths. It's true that there is a fixation with weaknesses, because the environment cues us in, right? Everyone talks about our weaknesses, right. And that is why we have also built a natural habit that we will also talk about it. But when you, but when we can reflect on our peak experiences, that is when like, no, we really focus on our strengths. So just talking about your peak experiences, remembering your peak experiences and what strengths played out. Right.

Vivasvan Shastri 29:48
Very often, people will attribute their own peak experiences to luck, right, and luck does play a part; nobody is denying it. But at least I have seen that when people talk about their peak experiences from their Top 5 strengths and StrengthsFinder, they will at least find 3 or 4. Right, they will find 3 or 4 strengths in action. They will find strengths actually combining together, right, to give them the momentum to succeed. Right. So I think getting people to talk about their peak experiences is by far the best way for them to really appreciate their strengths. Right. I think that is the simplest tool that is available to any coach, right, and a great starting point, right, to introduce strengths as well.

Deepanjan Deb 30:32
Absolutely. Very, very well-articulated. Because when you're talking about peak experiences, you're, you're automatically shifting the direction from negativity to positivity. Right? Yes. Now, when Gallup's studied, you know, its research on managers from hundreds of organizations around the world, it also talked about two basic flaws, you know, or assumptions, flawed assumptions about people: is that each person can learn to be competent in almost anything. Right? Each person's greatest room for growth is in his or her area of greatest weakness, which is what, beautifully, this, your, Paddy Upton mentioned in his, in his, in his chapter on Gallup strengths is the fact that he says that if I spend 10,000 hours on learning the piano, with my unfortunate lack of natural musical talent, I might become good, but will still not be a great concert pianist. Right.

Maximizing Team Output

Deepanjan Deb 31:30
Which is what one of our, you know, famous experiments on speed reading at the University of Nebraska also talked about. When you do an experiment on speed reading with people, you know, who are naturally good readers, the outcome is exponential. Right? So now, when we shift the discussion from, you know, to teams and maximizing teams and producing high-performing teams. In each team, you will have people with complementary talents. "Talent" is the Gallup for talent, which, you know, which we're referring to here. Now, I would want you to share some experience of, you know, how have you seen the group or the team output getting maximized because of it? Because you mentioned about somebody, you know, crunching that data in excellent. And when you, when somebody talks good about him or her, they feel good about it, right.

Deepanjan Deb 32:19
So in a team, you will have people say, you know, there are 5, 6 people in the team, just for simplicity's sake. Each one will bring a complementary talent or strength into it. Right? The first thing is, once you take the assessment or you, you have some, you've been coached by people, you are aware of it. So there were times when you were doing things subconsciously, but now you're doing things consciously. Now, as a people manager managing a high-performing team, or having an objective of creating a high-performing team, How have you, No. 1, allowed those differences to remain different, and thus, getting maximized? And how have you also allowed people to accept the fact that each one is different, and thus bring in a complementary sense of teamwork that allows you to get a maximum output?

Vivasvan Shastri 33:16
Yeah. So I'll just add one more flaw, right. I think Paddy Upton does well in highlighting the flaws that most managers have. I think the technology space, like no, there is one more flaw that we assume that if you are great at technology, hence, you will become a great leader. And a lot of people get promoted to leadership positions just because they did awesome with a product or a tech. Right? So I think that is one more flaw which, which you really have to watch out for as well; in the technology space, I think it is more.

Vivasvan Shastri 33:44
Now, to give you an example of how you can really use strengths to improve team productivity, right? I think, right, I'll share my own example. I use the concept of talent domains, right? If you really understand which domain an individual is really strong on, then you can provide more opportunities to that individual to kind of exercise or play within that domain. Right? For example, I have an individual in my team who's very high on Maximizer, very high on Futuristic, right? And then we had this competition within our teams and hackathon. Right. And being in the engineering space, we have a lot of introverts, right, like people who have great ideas, but they will never share their idea. They kind of like, you know, whenever a big competition is announced and the prize, they may not want to participate in it because they're not, not really comfortable.

Vivasvan Shastri 34:29
Now, this guy was a very strong Influencer extremely strong in Intellection. And so I made him in charge of kind of organizing the group, right, to providing support to the people who have ideas but want some support, right. And today my team, we are like, we are a very small team, but we had the most number of entries from my team into the hackathon competition. So you can focus on talent domains and whatever initiatives that you have on your team. Right? You can kind of direct them to individuals who are very strong in those domains. Right, for, for example, Influencing is very, one very strong domain. So you want to innovate, right. Then you have Intellection, right, under Strategic Thinking Domain is a very, very strong domain.

Vivasvan Shastri 35:10
So you can use the concept of talent domains as well, like, you know, move beyond strengths and see which domain is powerful and, and then align your initiatives and activities along those domains and those individuals. And that is a very easy way, right, for even a smaller team to do something which is far disproportionate to the size. And I have a very small team, but have a large number of ideas, because I had one individual who was very high on Influencing, very high on Strategic Thinking. He was put in charge of leading the entire troop, right? That is very, very simple things. You don't have to do anything, you know, you know, you have to just make them in charge.

Helping Team Members Find Their Purpose

Deepanjan Deb 35:46
Beautiful, beautiful. Now, you know, when we talk about, you know, managers playing the role of mentors or coaches, Gallup, in its research, identified the fact that there are 5 key conversations that managers need to have with employees regularly. It talks about Role and Relationship, Quick Connect, Check-In, Developmental Coaching, Progress to Goals. Now, we were -- one question for me, from me is that, at the end of the day, we have, you know, when you look at the teams that you have managed or the teams you have overseen being managed, you know, what happens or how have you navigated when somebody has not reached his or her goal, you know, to their potential, to their natural potential? How have you, you know, have you encountered any such -- and of course, you would have, but I would want you to share a few insights around how have you allowed people to reach whatever their goal is?

Deepanjan Deb 36:51
Because there might be people with different roles in the, in the, in the organization, right. So, if you see that, you know, this person is not being able to use his or her talent or not being able to reach, reach the goal, the intended goal, right? How have you allowed that, you know, that the person to reach that -- any, any specific strategies that you have adopted, both at an individual level and also at a team level? Because the teams will also have goals, right, so, so I would want to hear from you around that.

Vivasvan Shastri 37:24
Yeah. So step 1, I think I try to empathize with an individual, right? Because I think at times you don't understand what people's goals are, and right, at times, they themselves are not clear about what their goals are. So I think you'd begin with Empathy. Right? And like, you know, for my, like, you know, for me, my favorite questions are love/loathe, right? What did you love? What did you loathe? And then what do you need? And somewhere in the needs, you know, you will find that in case they have strengths, which they are not finding opportunities to utilize, right? Because they may not be clear about goals, right? People don't know what their goals are -- let's be honest, right? And it is very difficult.

Vivasvan Shastri 37:58
But what we can do as leaders is, if we can get them to use their strengths, right, on a consistent basis, they will eventually find their purpose. And once they find their purpose, they will identify what goals they want. So I don't think you should start with a goal. Yes, that a business has a goal, right? Most individuals will not have a goal, right? They will have a purpose, right? And if we can give enough of an opportunity for people to use their strengths, they will find their purpose. Once they find their purpose, then eventually, the goals will be discovered as well. So I think you have to keep that in mind. Right? Not the role of a leader, of a coach to prescribe goals.

Vivasvan Shastri 38:36
Yes, there are business goals, which a team is accountable for, right. But purely from an individual basis, I mean, they are just not a corporate entity, right? They just don't work. They have a life beyond work as well. There's a community that they live in as well. Right, which feeds into a lot of them. So as long as you can help them find their purpose, somewhere along the way, right, see a world which does not find expression for the soul is torture. Right? So how can you, you know, how can you get someone to really express what they love about? Right, I think there is a lady in my team whose dream was to be an RJ, right? And she became an RJ, and then she came to the technology center space, right? And she always loved being an RJ. Right? So I mean, like, you know, whenever there is a video to be made or wherever there is a demo to be given, like, you know, we will invite her in. And for her, that's the greatest moment. It's not the actual work that you do, right.

Vivasvan Shastri 39:28
So, people have needs which are not met, right, and at times it is difficult for, for classical or traditional work to meet all the needs. But there is enough and more opportunity, right? There is so much going on at work today. Right? Right, that you can give them that opportunity to express their soul. Right. And that is what we have to do as leaders: Give them more and more opportunities where they can express themselves. And they will find a way. They will find a way, right, you know, we're just enablers, right, and we can provide the guardrails like along the way so that, you know, they don't do something which really damages their career along the way. But as long as you define that framework and then set people free within the framework, right, they will find their purpose. Once they find their purpose, they will find a goal. And most companies have enough opportunities within, right, at least like Cisco, where I work, there are enough and more opportunities to express your soul, right?

Vivasvan Shastri 40:25
I think there are so much of rotation opportunities within as well. But as long as leaders can provide that framework, where people are free to express their soul, to live their strengths, they will eventually find their way. They will eventually find their purpose, and they will eventually find their goal as well. I don't prescribe goals for individuals, right. I will help them find their way. That's all.

Deepanjan Deb 40:45
Thank you. You know, before I move into my last segment of questions, but we have some beautiful, some very, very nice questions that are coming in, Viva. I'll take a couple of them. Lisa asks the fact that, you know, you talked a lot about Empathy. So where is that in your Top 34 -- in your 34? And what strengths do you use, you know, to approximate it? OK.

Vivasvan Shastri 41:08
No, so actually, this is a very good question, right, and I maybe opening a land mine; it is in my Bottom 5. But how I empathize is with my Maximizer, to be honest, right. So to be the best leader I can be, right, for me to maximize, to raise the bar, I have to really understand my people. And that is what gets me to empathize. And the same thing, so to be honest, it is coming from a different place. To naturally empathize is not in my Top 10. It is in my Bottom 5. But the way I empathize is to use my Maximizer. It also provides me a lot of food for thought for my Intellection, which is why I love it, right -- gives me a lot of input that I can think about as well. Right? And that is the beauty of strengths, right?

Vivasvan Shastri 41:57
I think this is like, no, perfect question. To do something, that need not be in your Top 5. Right. Yeah, it can be in your Bottom 5, and you can still do it if you can figure out an algorithm to do it. So I use my Maximizer. Right. I mean, I use this as a way to feed my Intellection. Right, it helps me to build Context, right to get a better understanding of people, the business situation also, right. And that is for me, right? So I do empathize, but Empathy is not in my Top 5.

Deepanjan Deb 42:28
I think there's another very, very nice question, which comes from what you said at the very beginning around the fact that, you know, technology, people are techies, trust the science, right. And they need a science around and the reasoning and the logic around everything. So the question is that, you know, when you, when you speak with them, you know, when you speak with people from the technology background who have been exposed to technology and are kind of into it, understand numbers, understand logic, do they expect measurable success? And if so, how do you kind of show it to them?

Vivasvan Shastri 43:03
For me, measurable success for techies is what they can experience. Right? It's not a KPI. So you have to keep one thing in mind: that, like, you know, when techies look for a, you know, they look for experience. Can they experience it themselves? Right, it's not what an algorithm tells them. It is not what a KPI or an MBO for business is; it should be something that they can experience. It is not what a slide says; it is what the heart feels. So as long as, by using their strengths, they get energized, right, they get motivated, they will start to believe the science, right?

Vivasvan Shastri 43:38
So techies are very scientific. They will only go by experience, no matter what amount of white papers you show them, no matter what amount of videos you show them, it's not going to work. But simple thing you can do as a coach is use one strength and get a techie to experience it. But then, those moments of experiences are their measures of success. Right. And if you can do that on a consistent basis, right, techies will fall for -- and like, see, one great part about technology industry is that they are ready to prototype anything. Right? They're ready to experiment, right? I mean, you're building code every day; you're shipping code every day. So you don't mind giving something a chance.

Vivasvan Shastri 44:15
Now in that one opportunity you get as a strengths coach, if you can really get them to experience the power of strengths, your job is done. Right. I mean, in fact, beyond the Name it and Claim it, right, I have so many of people that I coach, they are, I mean, they're strengths junkies now. They are like, you know, they know, they keep reading, right, about strengths. So just provide them, just provide them those experiences. You know, you, I mean, you don't need a lot of charm; you don't need a lot of white papers. You don't need a lot of things. Focus on the experiences that you can create for them, using strengths.

Deepanjan Deb 44:50
Absolutely. Absolutely. Jim, thoughts from your end before I move into the last segment?

Jim Collison 44:55
Now, let's go, we're gonna run out of time if we're not careful. So let's go into that last segment, DD.

CliftonStrengths and Wellbeing

Deepanjan Deb 45:00
OK, so, you know, Viva, you mentioned around the fact that there is a life, you know, we talk about life beyond work. And this pandemic has taught us the importance of wellbeing, right. We've seen people burn out. Now, what StrengthsFinder does is that if you are in, if you're working in the, in the field that you naturally are good at, it allows you to maximize not only your potential, your performance, but also your life. Right?

Deepanjan Deb 45:37
I want you to touch upon this whole, you know, wellbeing is something which is now absolutely a core focus of area for people across the world. And how, you know, how have you seen, you know, people who have been able to work through their, you know, domain of strengths, and have been able to do things that they really like and love, navigate the adverse effects of wellbeing and, and have been able to manage their lives in a positive way?

Vivasvan Shastri 46:09
So one, one good way to focus on wellness, using your strengths is, don't use it for yourself, but use your strengths in the service of others. Right? And COVID has provided us with a fantastic opportunity, with a fantastic platform to use our strengths in the service of others. If you're good at something, if something really drives you, really energizes, don't use your magic just for yourself. Right. Use your magic for everyone around you. Right? I think that is one short way of taking care of your own wellbeing as well. Right. Use your strengths for the service of others. I think that is like, you know, one thing.

Vivasvan Shastri 46:47
Secondly, use your strengths, strengths has been only applied in the space of career development. Right? People only use it for career progression, like, you know, making impact at work. Use your strengths to improve your own financial wellbeing. And that is what I am trying to do. Right? To be honest, I'm a techy guy, right? I don't really know a lot about the finance mode, but I have Intellection. Right? Right? I have Maximizer. Right? I have Learner, so I'm using my Learner to how can I use my strengths to improve my financial wellbeing? Right? How can I use my strengths for the benefit of society? And that is where my community can benefit because of my friends. Right? How can I use my strengths to help the family around me? Right? My own friends, my social circle? Right? How might I help them? Right?

Vivasvan Shastri 47:36
So, right, I think it is, using our strengths for the service of others is one way; using our strengths in areas where we have not applied, right, as Gallup has said, that wellbeing is not only about career; that career is only one part of it, right? There is physical wellbeing. Right? How can you use your strengths to improve your physical state of being as well? Right? I think, so use it for all areas; use your -- don't, don't, don't limit your strengths only one area that is self and career. We have to broaden the application of strengths, like, like, you know, beyond the self and career to far more areas. And that is where you will find your own wellbeing and you can help others find their wellbeing as well.

Deepanjan Deb 48:26
Thank you, that's a very --

Vivasvan Shastri 48:28
So, by the way, right? I mean, since you asked me on wellbeing what I've done for my team is I have combined both the Gallup's framework of wellbeing and plus Lego Serious Play. So we did a workshop within my teams, right, where we were asked, where we asked team to build Lego models, right -- we first spoke about physical wellbeing, right, that build a model about how you feel today, right, and where the future state would be, right. Then you change your model kind of where you want to be. And then you talk about how you will use your strengths to move from where you are to, to where you want to be. So I've done some experiments on wellbeing, plus Lego Serious Play, like, right? But I think that is where, use your strengths for the service of others and then broaden your application of strengths is, I think, two sure, sure ways of using it, especially during the COVID times that we are in.

Deepanjan Deb 49:13
Very, very useful advice for people listening to this, you know, listening to this. Viva, one, you know, one last, you know, question from my, my end around what I wanted to ask you today was the fact that, you know, when you look at the philosophy of strengths in a more philosophical, like, or in a very basic way. When I took StrengthsFinder, when I was just about to join Gallup and I was in XLRI, and when I was coached, I started asking, How do you know so much about myself, right? And people are doing things subconsciously, but now you're doing things consciously.

Deepanjan Deb 49:56
So my two-pronged question to you, Viva, before we close this, you know -- and we'll take a few questions from the chat if there are -- is, you know, How have you seen, you know, once people have, once you've interacted with the people or managed people in teams, once they're aware of their potential and the people they're working with, so basically, it's you and your stakeholders. Your stakeholders can be your immediate team members or your, know, broader team members. So once that awareness, you know, seeps in, how have you seen those manifest? And have you also seen certain kinds of conflicts that happen between team members because of not being aware?

Deepanjan Deb 50:42
So, for example, if somebody has high Deliberative -- Deliberative is the strength or talent which talks about, you will think through the pros and cons before acting. If I'm aware that Jim has very high Deliberative, and if I've sent an email to Jim and I know that he will respond, but if I'm not aware, I might think that, Why is he not responding? Am I not being important? Am I being not -- ? But if I'm aware that he is Deliberative, he will respond once he has the answers -- it reduces friction within teams. So, have you seen a reduction in conflicts? And also my first question was, How do you, how have you seen the transition of self-awareness move from individuals to teams?

Vivasvan Shastri 51:31
Yeah, it's a two-part answer. I think strengths does have a spiritual edge to it, right, a spiritual dimension or a matrix to it as well, right. So the first thing is, if you're not aware of your strengths, you will tend to be very judgmental, because you will always compare people around you with who you are, right? I mean, and you know, you play the role of a judge; you play the role of a jury. And that leads to a lot of conflict. You seek uniformity; you'll try to make the world like, you know, very much like who you are, right?

Vivasvan Shastri 52:03
Once you understand strengths, right, I think you will have the spiritual awareness that both you are different as well as people around you are different, right? And it's OK to be in this world where everyone is different, right? It is perfectly normal to be, right. And that itself reduces a lot of conflict, right. Your judge basically takes a back seat, and basically you lead from the point that Hey, you know, we don't seek uniformity, right. But we can be one even without being the same. Right? Even while being different, we can still be this one community. We can still be the one team. We can still be the one family. We can still be the one country. We can still be the one world, right. So, right, I think it makes you more inclusive. It makes you far more appreciative of people are -- it gives you, it forces you to take a back seat to kind of make sense of who people are, right? You may not agree with them completely, but at least you will appreciate them a lot more. Right?

Vivasvan Shastri 53:02
Secondly, you realize that people have different potentials, and the ways that they will get there is very different. The way that works for me is not the way that works with you. Right -- at Cisco, we have a very nice tagline for this, right: "Be you with us." Right? Right, you know, when you work for Cisco, you don't have to stop being who you are, but you can still be with us, right. And that is how strengths can provide a foundation for truly building an inclusive world, right. Here in India, there is a thing called ... right, that I do just loosely like, like, you know, I am and you are, like both of us are very similar. We may behave differently; we have very different styles, but we are equally good, right? And I see what is great in you, right? When you do "namaste" in India, right, I think it means that I see the divinity in you, right? And strengths forces us to look at people far bigger than what they really are today. It gives us that framework to say that, yes, like, this individual may be behaving in this way. But their, but their potential could be far, far bigger. And it forces us to see that bigger potential.

Vivasvan Shastri 54:10
And once we see that potential, we will, we will behave far differently. Right, we will be far less, we will be far, far less judgmental about what they are today. But we will focus on what they can be, right. And we will see ourselves as an enabler to help them to become what they want. Right? So I think that is where strengths can, can provide a spiritual foundation of building an inclusive world, because it has scope to really make people aware of how they are different. It helps people to be very aware of that other people can be different, right, and still appreciate their uniqueness. Right. So I think there's a spiritual foundation to strengths as well. And once you do that -- once you don't seek for uniformity, once you don't seek to be the judge and the jury, trying to make everyone the same -- that will provide you the space to really appreciate the potential of everyone. See, see people bigger than who they are. And once you can do that, right, I think your approach will change. So yes, I think strengths has a very spiritual foundation as well, DD.

Deepanjan Deb 55:12
Thank you. ... And, I, I don't have words to express the gratitude around how you have, technically as well as, you know, you know, conceptually explained this, you know, and made it so simple for people who are listening to it and will eventually listen to it, you know, in the recorded version. I think, Jim, that's all from my end. If there are any questions, we'll be happy to take, but it has been really, really wonderful to, you know, hear from Viva around, you know, how he has applied things at a granular level in the, in the technology space.

Buying Into CliftonStrengths: the Cost vs. the Value

Jim Collison 55:45
Yeah, exciting to be back in India. I just, I forgot how much I missed hanging out with you guys. And it's always super late in the night for me, but kind of missed hearing from, from India. And so it's just been great to hear the stories and, and hear you guys talk, and I've just really enjoyed the time. DD, a couple of questions came in around an example. So Dr. Priscilla Prasath asks this question about small firms and companies, able, able, how are they, how can they afford CliftonStrengths as an assessment in India? You know, because there's a price consideration. She had some questions and, as well as there was another question -- Preety had asked some questions about using it in institutions. I had given them the advice of, you know, really for those, contact us. But DD, how do you, how do you want to, can you talk about that just in a minute or two?

Deepanjan Deb 56:43
So basically, you know, Jim, the whole, I get this question almost every day around, not just the cost around it, but more, the more importantly, people ask me, how is StrengthsFinder different or better than, you know, the other assessments which are there, right? So, you know, I think that if you don't have a belief around this, so it's like how, if you, if you believe that the glass is half empty, you will go in that direction. If you want to see that the glass is half full, you will go in that direction. So once the belief system is there, I think, then, you know, we can navigate. Of course, there's a cost component to it. So I don't think it's the right platform to talk about it.

Deepanjan Deb 57:19
But the whole point is, is, you know, you have to have a belief system to apply this. If you don't have that, you can't apply this, irrespective of whatever the cost is, right? And of course, there are, you know, you know, different ways of, you know, different versions of the, of StrengthsFinder, you know, some people want, might want to take Top 5 and eventually migrate to the All 34. But now, mostly, all of our clients use the All 34 because of the benefits associated with it. I'll be happy to take those questions offline and, you know --

Vivasvan Shastri 57:52
I'll just jump in, DD, and I'll just share my experience, right. I'll just share, see, I think when it comes to cost, right, I think, for me, cost has never been the issue, right? Because I have, like, you know, very, very young engineers, right, who are just about to start in their career, and they themselves are ready to pay the amount to know their strengths. So I have never seen cost, the value, cost to be an issue, because I think the value that you get from it is like, you know, tremendous. Like, you know, that is one. Right? Secondly, when it comes to, Hey, there are so many tools and why should I pay Gallup? I think it's just not the tool and the science behind it. But I think the tool set that follows the assessment. Right? I think Gallup by far has the best tool set on what to do with your strengths report. Right?

Vivasvan Shastri 58:32
And for me, like, like, you know, for me, the tool set that I acquired, like, you know, once I did my Coaching Certification, right, I think that is a rich, rich mine, a gold mine of tool set available on what you can do post it, right. So I think those are the two considerations that you should keep in mind when you select, like, you know, when you take any tool or any framework, right -- there could be free tools also available, right? I've seen some free tools also available, right, out there. But pick something which is, one, is backed by science, right? Because people will question you on it, especially in the technology space, right? Engineers are very smart, right? Like, they'll figure it out. So I think, have a tool which is backed by science. And secondly, which has, like, which organization has the best framework post the assessment to help someone to reach their potential? Right. And I think Gallup is way ahead of others, when it comes to the tool set, in my personal experience.

Deepanjan Deb 59:24
And also the point is, Jim, just, just one, adding last, one last point is the fact that when you look at the technical report on StrengthsFinder, you understand the deep research that has gone behind it. So, you know, a lot of my clients request for it and explain the technical report behind, you know, how the StrengthsFinder has gone. Because, as Viva has said, people will ask you questions. There has to be a rationale behind it. And trust me, I have interacted with so many -- thousands of people now, thousands of people. Every person, you know, once they've seen the report, it's, How do you know so much about myself? It's as unique as your fingerprint, right, you know, it's 1 in 33 million, the probability that you will have your Top 5 is, you know, in the same order. So that had, there's a science behind it, there's a power behind it. Then, most importantly, there is positivity behind it. So if you believe in all of these, you should, you know, you know, tread the path.

Jim Collison 1:00:20
DD, is it OK for you give your email address if folks want to contact you?

Deepanjan Deb 1:00:24
Absolutely, absolutely, Jim. So should I just write it down here?

Jim Collison 1:00:27
I'll just say it: deepanjan_deb@gallup.com. Does that, is that, did I get that right?

Deepanjan Deb 1:00:35
Yes.

Jim Collison 1:00:35
I got it right. So, and if you can't remember that, send us an email: coaching@gallup.com. And we'll get that forwarded over to DD as well. So, great job, gentlemen. Thanks for coming out tonight. Thanks for being a part of this. You guys hang tight for me one second. We'll close it up with the chat room here. And thanks to everybody who came out. We had, we had a couple handfuls here. And it's always nice to be, whether you're listening from the West Coast of the United States or you're listening from India or Australia, we appreciate you coming out during this time zone. Couple reminders. If you want to take advantage of all the opportunities that we have, and we mentioned a lot of them, they're available on our website. Head out to gallup.com/cliftonstrengths. And you can get, you can actually sign up now for the CliftonStrengths Insight Newsletter at the very bottom of the page, if you want to get a monthly newsletter from us. If you're interested in coaching, master coaching or want to become a Gallup-Certified Strengths Coach, you can send us that email: again, coaching@gallup.com. Follow these events. And DD, we got to do more of these. We can't, this can't be a "one and done." So we'll be doing more -- we'll be doing, we'll be doing more. You can follow us on event on Eventbrite for that: gallup.eventbrite.com. Every time I post a new one for India, or anywhere around the world, you'll get notified of that and be able to join us live for those. Or just subscribe on your favorite podcast app. Just search "Called to Coach," and you can get these when they're done. It's not always convenient to listen to them live, but they're more fun live -- let's just be honest with that. We want to thank you for listening this evening, this morning, this afternoon -- whatever time zone you're in. Thanks for coming out. You guys hang tight for me. For the live audience, with that, we'll say, Goodbye, everybody.

Deepanjan Deb's Top 5 CliftonStrengths are Context, Individualization, Learner, Strategic and Achiever.

Vivasvan Shastri's Top 5 CliftonStrengths are Context, Strategic, Intellection, Maximizer and Learner.