Mastering Meaningful Conversations at Work

Called to Coach Webcast Series -- Season 12, Episode 6

Below are audio and video plus a transcript of the conversation, including time stamps.

What is a meaningful conversation, and how can we make more of our workplace conversations meaningful? According to Gallup's Hannah Lomax, just like recognition and strengths, meaningful is going to "look different for everyone. ... If you're wondering what makes a conversation meaningful to someone, just ask them." How do meaningful conversations differ from mere information dissemination? How can you leverage your strengths -- and your knowledge of others' strengths -- to make your conversations more consequential? What can you expect from meaningful conversations? And how can managers enhance their skills as they seek to bring meaning to conversations -- even difficult ones? Join our conversation and learn how you can improve your conversations.

This conversation needs to be grounded in an understanding of what someone's strengths are, and how we can help unlock performance by really tapping into those.

Hannah Lomax, 3:33

[Organizations need to] arm your managers with the right training to have conversations, whether they're great conversations, tough conversations or everything in between.

Hannah Lomax, 22:01

Jim Collison 0:00
Hello, everyone, I'm Jim Collison. I'm Gallup's CliftonStrengths^® Community Manager. I'm here today with Hannah Lomax here on this LinkedIn Live. Hannah, great to be with you. And welcome back!

Hannah Lomax 0:09
Thank you for having me, Jim.

Meet Our Guest on This Episode

Jim Collison 0:10
So great to have you. We, you're coming in, the reason it's 6 p.m. in the Central Time Zone. And we're doing that generally -- you used to be in London. Tell us a little bit about, first, what you do for Gallup. And then tell us why we're doing this at a different time.

Hannah Lomax 0:18
Yeah, absolutely. So my name is Hannah Lomax. I'm a Senior Workplace Adviser here at Gallup. And really, my role is to help create thriving workplaces. And, yeah, to Jim's point, I've recently hopped the pond, so to speak, and moved from our London team into our APAC region, with the Sydney office being my new home.

Meaningful Workplace Conversations Defined

Jim Collison 0:45
That's great. Yeah, so British accent, in Australia, talking to an American -- can't be any better. So we've covered it all tonight. If you're joining us live, and a few of you are, we're talking about unlocking performance by mastering meaningful conversations at work, really emphasizing this idea of having meaningful, meaningful conversations. If you're in chat, you could drop your Top 5 out there. That would be awesome; let us know. And then we have a question for you: Maybe When was the last time, or maybe what was the last time, you had a meaningful conversation? You can drop that in the chat. And maybe even, Why was it meaningful to you? Be spending some time doing that. Again, if in chat, you want to drop your Top 5 or answer that question about When's the last time you had a meaningful conversation or What was it that you had a meaningful conversation about? Hannah, let's start off by just defining it. What, what defines a meaningful, meaningful conversation in the workplace, do you think? We say that a lot. What does it mean?

Hannah Lomax 1:45
We do. We say that a lot. And the emphasis is really on that word meaningful. We're having conversations all the time anyway. And I think the reason that I'm so excited to be running this session with you today is we're not adding time to anyone's plate. People are talking anyway. So to answer your question, Jim, meaningful is gonna look different for everyone -- just like recognition, just like our strengths. So we'll start with that. If you're wondering what makes a conversation meaningful to someone, just ask them. But of course, at Gallup, we study these things. So there are a few things that run in common.

Hannah Lomax 2:18
So just to go through them briefly, the length of the conversation matters. So you'll see on our website that we say about 15 to 30 minutes is meaningful. However, I spoke with Mike McDonald this morning -- you guys know Mike -- he says you can do it in 5. He says you can make a conversation meaningful in 5 minutes. So the first one is the length of the conversation. Second one is recognition or appreciation for good work. And again, that's going to look different for everyone. Now, we're not just talking about, "Jim, that episode of Called to Coach was great!" That's nice, but it's not specific; it's not individualized; it's not actionable. So really drilling down into why something was good, and maybe even focusing on some of the characteristics around that.

Hannah Lomax 3:02
And then it's also got to cover collaboration and relationships. So we know that managers should really foster teams and cultures that help one another to collaborate. So it's got to cover that. "Who are you working with? Who supported you this week?" might be a good question to make that conversation meaningful. Current goals and priorities needs to be within that as well. So, What are you working on at the moment? What barriers can I remove for you? How are you going against your goals? And the last one, probably my favorite, is it focuses on strengths. So this conversation needs to be grounded in an understanding of what someone's strengths are, and how we can help unlock performance by really tapping into those.

Meaningful vs. Information-Dissemination Conversations

Jim Collison 3:44
While you're, while folks are jumping in, don't forget, you can throw your Top 5 in there, if you'd want. Hopefully, you were jotting down some notes. We have those for you as you're going forward. And I want to, you know, we ask this question for folks, and I want to see if you can throw them in chat. We did get one, I think, earlier here, talk -- I'll find it here in just a second. But why is it meaningful? And, and Hannah, this is a hard thing to get done. I think sometimes we think when we're having conversations, it's just to get the conversation done. We know, we also use that word meaningful when we talk about recognition, right? When people get it, get meaningful recognition that to them. What do you think, from an emotional standpoint -- I know this isn't in your notes, because I'm just making this up now -- but from an emotional standpoint, what does that invoke? What do you think having those conversations invokes for us that's so, that's so different than just an information-dissemination conversation?

Hannah Lomax 4:39
Yeah, I love that question. I think it makes people feel seen. I think it makes them feel heard, valued, cared about. And, you know, in the job that, that you and I are in, Jim, we're speaking to people all the time who are trying to really create those thriving cultures. And there's a retention crisis all around the world. Most people -- the majority of people are watching for job opportunities. If you think about a conversation at work, where someone actually took the time to make you feel special, to make you feel really, really understood, you probably don't want to leave that person, right. You might have some issues with the way that the company is run or some changes or challenges that exist in any organization. But I think, to your point, that emotional standpoint, that's what makes someone feel like they are part of a culture that really is different.

Jim Collison 5:33
We live in a world of sound bites, right, and we live in a world of 5-second bits of communication. And I think it takes a little more than that. Wilson -- producer Reilly behind the scenes, who helps me out in everything I do; makes me look great every time -- starred it for me. So Reilly, thank you for getting that done. Wilson said, When there is active listening, no judgment or open to suggestions/discussions. I think, you know, as we think about that, Hannah, that really is the difference maker in this, is we spent a lot of time talking about active listening, of, we say they're meaningful conversations, but actually, they might be more meaningful listening than they are -- and -- react to that a little bit. How important is it in a meaningful conversation to be a good listener?

Hannah Lomax 6:22
Yeah, it's the, the most important thing. And when we think about who these meaningful conversations are likely to be with, it's going to be the manager or the leader, right? So yes, you can have meaning conversa-, meaningful conversations with a best friend at work. And that's great. That's going to drive engagement; that's going to drive performance. But when we think about a meaningful conversation with a manager, that manager has to have some self-awareness. So if you are somebody who has maybe Restorative™ in your Top 5, and you love solving problems, refrain from jumping in with a solution. Listen, and make sure that that person feels heard; otherwise, that conversation maybe ticks a box, but it doesn't necessarily get down to the core of what that person is try -- maybe they just want to be heard; maybe they don't want a solution. So I think, to your point, Jim, you know, if we can help managers develop that skill of active listening and practice that every day and maybe even get some coaching on that, some training on that, that's really going to be the game-changer in making those conversations meaningful.

CliftonStrengths and Meaningful Conversations

Jim Collison 7:30
Joseph out in chat says, Meaningful for me is different than the communication necessary to make it meaningful for another person. Hannah, you said it needs to be individualized; that's what I hear in this. We usually lean into communicate meaningful like, like we want meaningful. And that is, these, these conversations are not easy. I think, though, knowing the individual's strengths, and maybe even the manager's strengths, as we think about a quick Team Grid or a quick conversation about how we're coming at each other with this. But the CliftonStrengths framework speeds that up a little bit. Right? And why does it, why do you think it adds, why do you think it adds to the conversation? Yeah. Let me just end it there. Why do you think it adds to the conversation?

Hannah Lomax 8:15
It's a shortcut. So if I'm onboarding two different people onto my team -- one is a Strategic Thinker, right? That's, that's their leading domain. One is a Relationship Builder. The way in which I structure and have those conversations with those two people will look almost completely different. There'll be some nuances that are the same, right. We'll go through, for anyone that's familiar with Gallup's 5 conversations that drive performance, we'll go through those different steps. But the nuances around those conversations will be individualized to that person's strengths, to make it land better.

Hannah Lomax 8:50
And I think, you know, just to sort of, I guess, build on that slightly, sometimes what we think is happening is very different than what the person on the receiving end is actually perceiving. So you might come away from a conversation as a manager, feeling like, That was amazing! It was meaningful. But actually, you really need to come back and ask that person for feedback. So we know from our research, 59% of managers strongly agree that they give recognition, right. So most managers think they're doing a good job of it. 35% of employees strongly agree that they get recognition. So there's a huge gap between sometimes what managers think is happening and what actually is happening. It's the same with feedback. This statistic, I think, kind of took me about quite a lot: Only 51% of managers even strongly agree that they're giving feedback every week. So that's a pretty poor place to start. You know, not, not even half of people are actually on board with the fact that that's happening. 21% of employees would strongly agree that they get weekly feedback. So just to wrap it up, I think, get, get that understanding of what is making that meaningful, and for who. Because it's actually not about you; it's about the person that you're having that conversation with.

Outcomes of Meaningful Conversations: Relief, Confidence

Jim Collison 10:07
Hannah, we're getting some great comments in chat. And I still want to throw that question out. It's hard, in a setting like this, to get it, to get that conversation back really well. But I want to challenge our listening audience on this. I want to challenge you: Best conversation you've ever had, and why. Not what the conversation was, but what was it that made that meaningful? Throw that in the chat; I'd love to bring those in and, and talk about those. What were some components of that -- I don't know, maybe in a few words, describe, maybe 3 words that describe that conversation, if that, if that makes it easier for you. Hannah, when you think about meaningful conversations you've had in your career -- you personally -- let me ask that question of you. What was it that made those conversations meaningful? What did it do for you? Or what kind of difference did it make for you?

Hannah Lomax 10:58
Yeah. I'm very lucky, in that already today -- it's lunchtime here -- I've had two really meaningful conversations. So I think, for me, it is that specific, individualized, actionable nuance. So I came away feeling like the person that I'd had the conversation with really understood what I was trying to get to. It wasn't, it wasn't just, you know, Yeah, I hear you. I truly, truly felt like both of those people understood what I was, what I was kind of talking about. And then they were able to give advice on how I would handle these situations that I was discussing with them, based on my strengths. So there was that element of care, listening, understanding, but I didn't just come away feeling like, you know, I'd got something off my chest, or I'd been told that I'd done a good job in something; I could actually take away some of those pieces of information. And that's going to shape the way that I now handle particular situations in my own daily work.

Jim Collison 12:02
Got some great comments coming in. Reilly will be popping in them on screen here; I'll talk about them in just a minute. So keep bringing those in. Hannah, though, but how did that make you -- you talked about what happened. How did it make you feel, though? How did you feel different at the end of that conversation? Can you describe that feeling a little bit? I think this is one of those areas we don't talk about enough, that, these areas of confidence or motivation or whatever. When you had those conversations, how'd you feel at the end?

Hannah Lomax 12:31
Energized, motivated, ready to go. Like, I've got this. I think also relieved, because I've been heard, you know? Yeah, I felt like a weight off my shoulder. Yeah.

Jim Collison 12:42
Yeah. Yeah. Which I think is an underestimated emotion, a reaction. Like, you've been worrying about something for weeks. You get the opportunity to have this conversation with someone. They say, "I got you." However, that whatever that looks like, right? And you walk away from the conversation relieved. What does that do for your wellbeing? And what does that do for your, your motivation? We've been spending a lot of time in The CliftonStrengths Podcast this season talking about motivation. What does that do for your motivation?

Hannah Lomax 13:19
It accelerates it 1,000 times, because sometimes, you know, I don't even need a solution. I just want to be heard. But I end up coming away with really good advice on how to do something differently, how to lean into something that I've done well even more. So I think you just get that sense of, you get that sense of confidence that actually you're OK, you can keep going. You've got this. And that's exciting. That's going to make you feel even more alive and engaged and ready to go.

Jim Collison 13:50
Yeah. Relieved and confident were the 2 words I heard you say in there. And I think those, those are emotions we can bank, right? I think we can bring them in that, that puts us in a different place during the day. You know, imagine coming away from a bad conversation. The first thing you want to do is leave, or not answer -- if you're working from home, you're not answering a single email. Or, I'm not doing any more work today. I'm going to go for a walk, right. And you sometimes walk away from those conversations, then, relieved. You know, you walk away confident, right, that you can kind of, like, No, I'm, I'm ready to do this thing. I am ready to bring it back. There was some words coming in I want to have you respond to them a little bit: honest, open conversation, right, respect, honesty. I love these 3 words, by the way, that -- this is a, this is a thing we use at Gallup sometimes on our Zoom calls, to say, Describe it in 3 words. You can keep throwing your 3 words in there if you'd like, though, if that's, if that works. Wilson says, When conversations use statements like, "Tell me more." in this, right.

Hannah Lomax 15:00
Like what are you not saying, right? What's, yeah, what else is under there? And I love that honesty piece. And one of the things that, again, we've studied at Gallup is the role of trust and communication. So we know from our research that when leaders create a culture of high trust, and when leaders communicate effectively -- so these are questions that we measure in a lot of the work that we do around culture -- when leaders are creating those environments of trust, and communication, employees are 4 times as likely to be engaged, and then more than 60% less likely to get burnt out. So, to your earlier points about how it makes you feel, you're less stressed and burnt out. And you're more excited to be at work, because you've got trust and communication. So if leaders and managers can use these meaningful conversations to build those cultures, I think you're, you're onto the winning, the winning conversations really there.

Jim Collison 15:55
Yeah. Oh, for sure. Marina makes a comment out in chat, which I really like. She says, One of the things that helps me as a coach is to ask myself if the question that I want to ask is just about satisfying my own curiosity, or if it's actually serves the other person, and that's what they need to hear. I love that other layer, because I think sometimes we think curiosity equals engagement. Like we're like, "Oh, and tell me more, Hannah!" And then you get done with it, and you're like, "You know, tell me more." Like all of a sudden, you realize, he's not really listening to me; he's just using it as a trick, right? Even some of these kinds of things could be used against us in that way.

Jim Collison 16:39
But this genuine, you know, this, thinking about being in the shoes of the other person and saying, What's meaningful, what's meaningful enough to, to -- ? Well, let me, let me give, let me give you as an example in this. You recently moved, right? So you're in a new location. You're in a new continent. You're in a new time zone. You're in a new hemisphere, right? You probably felt a little lost at times. Right? You're, what was, what was, once was, is no more. You were excited about this. But excitement only gets you so far, once you land on the ground. What were some of the things that were said to you early in your time there? You've been there a couple of months now. Can you think back to some things that were said to you early that, that gave you that confidence or put you at ease? Like, Am I gonna make it here? Like is this gonna work? Yeah. Any thoughts?

Hannah Lomax 17:39
I remember the first proper kind of one-to-one that I had with my manager out here, Rohit, who is just the most incredible leader. He started the conversation with, Before we get into any of the details about, you know, what this job entails and, you know, your setup for the year and stuff that I broadly knew, but we were just kind of finalizing, he said, I want you to know how much courage it takes to move so far on your own. And I'm so proud of you, and I want you to know that I've got you. And for me, that just changed the entire nuance of the conversation, because I genuinely felt like, I can tell this man anything now. You know, if I need something, there's that psychological safety to actually just pick up the phone and call. So I think that opens up, you know, an entirely different experience -- for both people, hopefully.

Managers: Getting Better at Having Meaningful Conversations

Jim Collison 18:33
If you have questions for Hannah, you can start dropping those in chat. We're about 10 minutes before we wrap this, this piece up. Hannah, when you, when you think about helping managers -- and sometimes, you know, we don't, we teach managers about, you know, how to get tasks done and how to organize things, and maybe even how to read a Team Grid if they're in a strengths-based culture. What kind of advice would you give to managers who -- maybe new managers or managers who've been, who doing this for a while, some ways to just continue to open up the culture to help with this, these ideas of meaningful dialogue? What kind of advice can we give them that might help them -- if they're, if they're bad, be good; if they're good, be better; if they're better, be best? What would you say?

Hannah Lomax 19:26
I think one of the things that I encourage managers to do is just take a minute and check in with themselves around why they ever wanted to be a manager. Because that quite clearly is gonna give you a good grip on -- Was it for pay? Was it for purpose? Was it to create impact? So if it's the wrong reasons, you probably know quite quickly, and that might give you the opportunity to have a conversation with your manager and look at different ways of progressing in your own career. But more than anything else, if it's because you want to see your team absolutely thrive, Why? What does that look like? If you were to fast forward in a year's time, and your team had hit all their goals, what would that take?

Hannah Lomax 20:13
So I think, for managers, it's understanding why they want to do that job, building a bit of their own self-awareness first. So again, Positivity^® No. 1, I sugarcoat most things. So when I'm having conversations with my team, it's just bringing some of that awareness around, am I maybe focusing on a cup half-full here, when there's, there's a little bit of a fire burning over in the corner that perhaps we should, we should sort of solve for? And then I think it's just understanding each person as much as you possibly can. Obviously, CliftonStrengths gives you a phenomenal way of doing that quickly, and a good grounding for meaningful and impactful conversations. But just start with, What does meaningful look like to you? How do you like to be recognized? What do you want to accomplish this year? And how can I get you closer towards that?

Meaningful Conversations That Are Difficult

Jim Collison 21:04
Get some good questions coming in. And Hannah, you know me; you can read me like a book. So this one is the, this is, she said this question for me: What are your thoughts on how nonverbal communications impact meaningful communications -- meaningful conversations? Because, I say that because I oftentimes, don't, it's all up front, I can be saying one thing; my body is saying and other. What are your thoughts? And you alluded to this a second ago, I think, in an answer, but, but let me ask you: What are your thoughts on this idea? How we present ourselves, especially may, maybe when these meaningful conversations may be difficult conversations? Your thoughts on that?

Hannah Lomax 21:47
Yeah, it's really tough. And most managers don't get the training that they need to actually lead teams effectively. So any organization that is, you know, hearing this conversation and wondering what they can do -- arm your managers with the right training to have conversations, whether they're great conversations, tough conversations or everything in between. But with the nonverbal stuff, again, I think we now live in such a hybrid environment, often it's going to be a Teams message, because, you know, you're waking up at 6 a.m., and it's 11 p.m. for a team member. So there are some things that you can't do face to face, or even on a video call. So nonverbal, it can still be effective. But I think, again, the power of making feedback present and in person where possible, that adds a layer that you're not going to get over the phone.

Jim Collison 22:41
Where I mess up in the nonverbal is I get distracted easy. And, you know, I have a Top 5 of I'm a firefighter, not a farmer. I'm always moving. High Activator^®, high Woo^®, high Influencing. I just want to, I'm like a dog that's just trying to herd sheep. That's, that's me. Right? That is what I try to do. And so when I'm in a, in the midst of a conversation like this, I mean, thank goodness, as we're doing these podcast interviews, I'm kind of forced to focus on them. Otherwise, I'd be all over the place. Although, while we're doing something like this, I'm, you know, watching chat and doing some of those other kind, things that kind of feeds into that.

Jim Collison 23:19
But I have noticed from time to time, people notice that. They notice my eyes, right. They, they noticed my eyes are not staying in the conversation, or I'm not, I may not be doing that active listening. We've, at Gallup, we have some great tools to help with that. And so if folks want to dive deeper into that or need help with that, send us an email: coaching@gallup.com. We can get that conversation started. I don't want to turn that into a giant sales pitch. But it is an opportunity. We have a lot of great tools for that. I don't know, Hannah, as you think about that, certainly, you've been in that conversation before where you know, like, because the person's looking all over the place, they're not paying attention, right? Or we're in meetings where we're working. We're trying to multitask. We're all -- I've been in meetings where we're all multitasking. Right?

Hannah Lomax 24:05
It's so hard. Yeah. And I think it's really important to call that out. I think the power of a, of a pause when you know that someone is doing something else, it kind of puts them in a spot where they realize that you they know that you know that you're doing something different. So I think just setting that expectation at the beginning of the call and saying, like, "I know you've got a bunch of stuff going on today. Is now a good time?" If they say that now is a good time, right, they've given you permission to have that time and all of their attention. So you can ask them to shut down Teams, put their Outlook on silent -- that might feel uncomfortable -- but just really ask them to fully commit to that session. Because, like you say, I think, with all of those distractions, it's very hard to get everything out of them that you do need to cover.

Meaningful Conversations for Managers in a Matrixed Environment

Jim Collison 24:57
Yeah, yeah. It's, it's, and it didn't get any better when we, when we got better at remote conversation; it just allowed us to be more distracted from a greater distance. Right. Great question here: What about managers in a matrixed environment? And this, I live in this environment. I don't, I don't have any directs, but I have to influence a lot of individuals and work with a lot of individuals. Can the meaningful go, meaningful conversation go any deeper if the team knows the manager, manager is -- or may not, or may be an influencer and not the final authority? And yes, I have to influence things all the time. And I don't have any direct responsibility to get people to get things done that way; I have to influence them. Your thoughts on a matrixed environment?

Hannah Lomax 25:45
Yep, matrixed environments can be challenging because of, I guess, the different layers and almost the different steps in a decision-making process. But I think almost, if you put that aside and just focus on those 5 key points to make something meaningful, you can kind of figure the rest out, and it will come to light quite quickly. If you're having a conversation with a manager, and you're discussing, you know, maybe progress and priorities, right. So one of those, one of those topics was around current goals and what's happening at the moment, and you're quite quickly realizing that your manager is going to have to do some work higher up the company to help remove the barriers that you were experiencing. That is their job. It's your job to raise that with them, but that is their job to solve for. So in a way, it's going to be tough for that manager. But as far as meaningful conversations go, as long as you hit those 5 key points, you're hopefully in a position where that manager can then solve for any of those other complexities that they might have to work through to get the outcome that you've almost desired or asked for. Does that make sense?

Jim Collison 26:54
Yeah. Yeah. And listen, there's a real, there's a real relationship difference, I think -- this is my opinion -- there's a real relationship difference between a direct-line manager who's responsible for the health and wealth and pay and all those other things and a manager who's not. And I actually, I have found, I'm actually better in the environment where I'm not, because I can bring better feedback. I think I can bring -- the pressure isn't on, in a lot of regards. And I think sometimes, because in a lot of work environments, pay is involved, that creates a barrier. Someone in the chat had asked about barriers, and I think pay is one of those barriers sometimes that, that gets in the way of meaningful conversations. We at Gallup have talked about separating the performance conversation and the pay conversation. As you're having those conversations with, with, with the, with the individuals that you manage, getting those conversations separated, because sometimes they can, they can actually negatively influence one another, right?

Jim Collison 28:00
And so let me encourage managers, if you're listening to this, and you're a dot, you're dotted into a team or you're not necessarily direct into a team, but you have influence in that team, I think you have an amazing responsibility to help the manager of that team, to come alongside and partner with them, and be, be a good influence and a help to them, and provide some key feedback. Hannah, you said, "Yes" as I was saying that. You want to add to it?

Hannah Lomax 28:30
Managers don't know what they don't know, right. So if there's stuff going on at the ground level that everyone's kind of feeling unsettled about, and no one's telling the manager, you'd want to find out, firstly, why they're perhaps hesitant to communicate that information. But you'd also want to find a way to help that manager get the support that they need to raise that further and have those problems solved. And I think that is where something like the Q^12® framework, so our employee engagement framework, can be such a, I guess, influential language that people can use. Because if you're finding that maybe there's conflict between two team members, you're going to score low on "My coworkers are committed to quality work," because there's that, that, there's that disconnect. So helping managers understand what's going on enables them to actually do their job and have those problems resolved, so that everyone can have an amazing experience at work.

Jim Collison 29:29
Yeah, yeah. And we know, you know, we know, as I'm watching kind of the chat, I often find that these meaningful conversations are make, made or broke -- made, yeah, is that the right way to say it? They happen or they don't happen in the first 3 minutes of the conversation. Like, it's key we get into this, and we develop some rapport and trust right away. If I don't, if I mess that up -- on both sides, whether I'm the one being, you know, speaking to my manager, or I'm the manager in that case, having that conversation -- the first few minutes are super key on that, as far as digging in. Hannah, we need to, unfortunately, the time goes super fast. Any -- final thoughts? Any final encouragement to those that are listening today and listening on the podcast before we go?

Hannah Lomax 30:17
Yeah, thank you. For those that want the business case, it's all well and good talking about meaningful conversations. We now know what they look like. One statistic that I think I would love to leave you guys with is 81% of engaged employees can strongly agree to the question, I've had a meaningful conversation in the last week. So it's not just a nice-to-have; it absolutely has to happen. Just in case you weren't already kind of convinced, you know, I think we've got such a strong understanding on the impact that that has on a company's success.

Jim Collison 30:54
And I, and I would say to managers, to encourage them: This isn't, this is a skill that needs practice.

Hannah Lomax 31:02
It does.

Jim Collison 31:03
So there's good, good feedback. We think about get 360 feedback around you. How are you doing? How is it working? Ask the people that you manage, "How am I making you feel?" "How is this working?" Right? As well as those above you or working with you or managing you, "How, what are you hearing?" "How is it going?" I think this is a craft that we have to spend time practicing and working on -- certainly applying our CliftonStrengths themes to it and thinking through that framework if, you know, for me I said early on, I'm a firefighter, not a farmer. Knowing that is super key. That way, I know I'm going in hot; in every situation, I am going in hot, right? And that, that self-awareness that allows me then sometimes to say, You know what? I need someone else to do this, because I just come in too hot to have this kind of conversation, and, and get some help on it as well. Hannah, thank you for, one, thanks for coming on here today and being a part of this, and your great wisdom. And good luck to you. We're going to hear from you again -- I have a feeling on this. And we're a little jealous that Sydney got you; maybe someday we'll get you in Omaha as well. Thanks for coming on today.

Hannah Lomax 32:11
Awesome. Thank you so much! It's good to be back.

Jim Collison 32:13
For those of you listening live, don't forget, you can catch all of this on The CliftonStrengths Podcast. Just head out to your podcast player, and anywhere or any, no matter what way you listen to podcasts, search "CliftonStrengths." This will be available for you, plus a whole bunch of other information. Thanks for coming out today or this evening or this morning or whatever time it is for you. Thanks for coming out. We'll see you next time. With that, we'll say, Goodbye, everybody.

Hannah Lomax's Top 5 CliftonStrengths are Positivity, Futuristic, Learner, Responsibility and Focus.

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