What Is a Strengths-Based Manager? Part 1

Called to Coach Webcast Series -- Season 11, Episode 27

Below are audio and video plus a transcript of the conversation, including time stamps.

The workplace environment in late 2023 is full of pitfalls for those who aspire to be great managers, including quiet quitting and employees who are actively seeking new job opportunities. Yet managers are the conduit for employee performance and productivity in organizations. And each one has access to the power of CliftonStrengths^® -- theirs and their employees' -- in their day-to-day management. How do managers apply that power effectively in their jobs? What fundamentals do managers (and their coaches) need to know in order to manage in a way that is strengths-based? And what can managers do to hone their strengths-based managing skills even further? Join Gallup's Dean Jones and Jim Collison in Part 1 of this 2-part series, and employ the full power of strengths in your work.

Good self-awareness is the foundation for great management. If you don't have good self-awareness, it's unlikely you're going to end up being a great manager.

Dean Jones, 20:27

There's no more powerful tool in the world for really understanding the unique configuration of someone's talent than CliftonStrengths.

Dean Jones, 31:18

I find the best strengths-based managers are the ones that are endlessly curious about how an employee's strengths are manifesting themselves.

Dean Jones, 22:00

Jim Collison 0:00
I am Jim Collison, and this is Gallup's Called to Coach, recorded on August 18, 2023.

Jim Collison 0:21
Called to Coach is a resource for those who want to help others discover and use their strengths. We have Gallup experts and independent strengths coaches share tactics, insights and strategies to help coaches maximize the talent of individuals, teams and organizations around the world. If you're listening live, and you don't see the chat room, it just means you're on our live page. There's a link to it right there. It'll take you to YouTube; the chat is there. If you're on LinkedIn, you can chat with us as well. Just drop those comments in chat, and we'll see those as they come in. If you're listening after the fact, and you have a question, you can always send us an email: coaching@gallup.com. Don't forget to subscribe on your favorite podcast app or right down there on YouTube, so you never miss an episode. Dean Jones is our host today. Dean is the Global Talent Development Architect and Senior Learning Expert for Gallup, as well as the chair of Gallup's Diversity Council. And Dean, it's always a great day when I get to spend it with you. Welcome back to Called to Coach!

Dean Jones 1:10
Yeah, thank you, Jim. It's great to be here.

Gallup, CliftonStrengths, and Managing People

Jim Collison 1:12
We are excited for our topic today, as we're thinking -- and Gallup's been thinking about managers forever, but in particular, the last 5 years, with a lot of work coming out about managers, and that's our topic today. Why don't you kind of get us started with where we'd like to go with this time that we have?

Dean Jones 1:32
Yeah, that's great. I, it was interesting, because as we were thinking about, to your point, we've been talking about, thinking about, doing research on managers for literally decades. And we know just a ton about management. And, and I always laugh because I'm sure that there's, others have this experience, whether it's on the news or in books on workplaces and management, we get quoted all the time, right? And, you know, if you go back to, you know, we're, we're now 20-some years into the CliftonStrengths movement. And as CliftonStrengths started to be used as a development tool in organizations, people started to naturally wonder, How do you integrate strengths into management? How does that, I mean, that, that just became something that, it was a normal thing. As we, and as we were developing CliftonStrengths, we intended that it would be a powerful tool for managers to help employees be able to develop their talent and realize their potential. So it's all sort of baked into the thing, right? It's all sort of, it was, it was all in an intentional part of the design.

Dean Jones 2:37
So one of the terms that started to arise, as we started using CliftonStrengths in workplaces, was this idea of a strengths-based manager. And on the surface, it seems obvious: a manager that bases their approach to working with employees and teams through the lens of strengths. But one of the things I think is interesting is to really ask the question, What does it really mean to be a strengths-based manager? I think on the surface, people have sort of a superficial understanding of what that is; that people think it's just, Hey, am I a manager that knows my strengths? Or am I a manager that knows the CliftonStrengths of my team? And I think that there's kind of a superficial understanding of what it is to be a strengths-based manager.

Dean Jones 3:21
So I thought it would be useful for us to really dive in and talk about, What exactly is a strengths-based manager? We've defined it. So when I was preparing for today, you know, as I was doing, I went back and looked at some of the things we've taught in courses, some of the things that we've written about strengths-based management. We've written a lot around this, and there's lots of different kind of takes on this, where, you know, what is it to be a strengths-based manager? What is a strengths-based team? You know, how do you, how do you approach this? So there's a lot that we've done around this. The, why I think it's particularly relevant right now is that if you, this, this, this topic of management is gaining a lot of traction. So I'm reading two different books right now, one by a big blue chip consulting firm; one by a gentleman who's a, sort of a, known as the, the HR analyst, right, and, or futurist. And both of them are talking about the power of management.

Dean Jones 4:19
And I think it's so funny, I read these books, and I see the echoes of our research, right? The, when, in 2019, when we published It's the Manager, what I see is people really discovering the power of management, the power of middle managers in the organization, and the importance of managers using a coaching approach in the work that they're doing. And, so I thought it would be particularly relevant to go back and talk about, What do we mean by being a strengths-based manager? And go a little deeper in some of the, into some of the practices that are central to strengths-based management. We should probably talk, you know, as I was starting to prepare for this and got deep into it, I realized, like, this is probably a 2-part session. So, we'll do part of it today and then part of it on the next session together. But because there's, there's a lot to cover here. So I don't want to, I want to let people know we're going to, we're really going to kind of try to explore this a little bit.

How It's the Manager Helps Managers in Today's Workplace

Jim Collison 5:11
Dean, we, a couple years back, we wrote a book called, It's the Manager. And I think some folks felt like maybe we were writing that about managers, as opposed to for managers. Would you, would you, as we think about that as a resource for managers, would you make any comments on that? Or how managers could use that resource or could be using that resource as well in, in their strengths-based management?

Dean Jones 5:37
Yeah, I will tell you this. So, so let's -- look at me grabbing the book off my shelf. But here's the thing I think is the great thing about It's the Manager. It, it's written, the, part of it is just the format of the book is written in a way that it's very easily digestible. And it does talk about what makes somebody a good manager. It does talk about in the, in the, in the, in the book, it does talk about what are those characteristics of a good manager and some of the things that managers ought to be doing. Right? So that is in the book, right? The book was really designed to make the assertion -- and I think the big, big finding that, out of that book that may be one of the, one of the biggest findings Gallup's ever had is that we know that managers have a disproportionate impact on the variance in employee engagement: that at least 70%, and there's numbers, you know, when we were looking at the numbers, the numbers were, you know, I think they range between 70% and 80% something of the variance in employee engagement can be directly attributed back to the manager.

Dean Jones 6:38
So for us, and we know that employee engagement is a central measure of, a predictive measure of the performance of an organization. So we know if you have strong employee engagement in your organization, that it's a predictive measure of the future performance of that organization. So that's why it's such a central measurement. So finding out that managers have this kind of disproportionate impact on engagement was super important, and it really reinforced the power and the importance of managers in the organization, middle managers of the organization, you know. And particularly one of the books I'm reading talks about how being a middle manager has sort of, has had sort of a negative connotation. It's interesting for me, you know, when I started at Gallup, you know, you'd talk to a lot of organizations, and in organizations, manager, even in and of itself, was sort of a dirty word. Right? And, and the idea and that being a middle manager had sort of a negative connotation, because the idea was that somehow you were part of the bureaucracy or you were a barrier to getting work done.

Dean Jones 7:45
What we see is, in fact, that managers are, are the conduit for really having getting work done, right; that in organizations, managers really, really are the ones that are able to translate strategy, vision, direction, into, into what operationally we need to get done, and they're the key to retaining people in an organization. One of the things we know right now, we're living in an environment where talent is scarce. And as people retire -- we were talking about retirement earlier today -- as people retire, as these, as all the boomers retire, talent's going to get more scarce. And so retaining people, particularly retaining good people, is critically important. My manager at Gallup, Matt Mosser, he's our CHRO, just wrote a great article; I just posted on LinkedIn the other day, just wrote a great article. And I thought, in the middle of that article, it had this kind of searing question, which was, Think about your three best people. What would you do if they all left? You know.

Dean Jones 8:45
And that's the environment. In an environment where literally one out of two people is looking for a new job. So if you look at the current environment, it's one of the statistics that Gallup just published is it's, I think it's over 50%, I think it's like 52% of people in the workforce right now are looking for a new job. So in an environment like that, retention is everything. So all this to say that the role of manager is so, so critically important. And we know that if you're a strengths-based manager, you've got an advantage. So if we can teach people, if, as coaches and HR people and leaders in organizations, we can cultivate an environment where we teach people to be effective strengths-based managers, we know that that gives our organization an advantage, right? I was just talking to Amy Shuman, who's a coach; she works at UC Davis. She's, she and I saw each other again at the, at the Summit. She was talking about the work they're doing at UC Davis in the, in the division that she, she works with about making sure that every manager is really well-equipped inside that organization, and is really well-equipped to be able to do that. I think it's just critically important that we do that. So that's sorry, this is like the longest preamble ever, but it's, it's why I think it's important, right?

Differences Between a Manager and a Leader

Jim Collison 9:59
It's good. One of the things, one of the cool things about my job is I get to see all the Certified Coaches come through. I look at the lists every day. And I've been seeing the UC Davis coaches come through, as you mentioned. So it's kind of fun to, to see that effect across the globe -- not related to anything we're talking about here, but just when you mentioned them, put a smile on my face, because it's fun to see some of those new coaches come through. Dean, before, before we dive into the topic of, So what does it mean to be a strengths-based manager? I think the question a lot of folks in the chat room -- and by the way, we have both YouTube and LinkedIn chat today. You guys can't see each other, but trust me, I'm getting all your questions. So we'll have them as well. Dean, difference between a manager and a leader, as we see it? You know, we, we have a CliftonStrengths for Managers Report and a CliftonStrengths for Leaders Report. And I think we, we, we move those words in and out, and they have different meanings for a lot of different people. As you, when you talk about a manager, can it be applied to leaders as well? Is this a "for managers and leaders" conversation? Is it separate? I'm gonna get that, asked that question in chat. So I thought we'd cover it.

Dean Jones 11:03
It's a great question. It's a great question. Hey, before I answer your question, Lisa Feldman called out, I do want to make sure we, we're talking about It's the Manager here, but, and we were referencing that. But our latest research around this is in the book, Culture Shock, so if you haven't read Culture Shock, or picked up a copy of it, I would highly recommend that you do that. Really, really good stuff there, right, in Culture Shock. It has our latest research -- we're going to talk about it a little bit today and a little bit next time -- our latest research around managers and the impact of managers inside organizations. We also, one of the things that we did there in the, in that book is talk a little bit about The Gallup Path. So we're, we've updated The Gallup Path. So that's, that's included there.

Dean Jones 11:48
So back to your question, the managers-leaders. I will tell you that, so it's interesting. I was talking to somebody the other day that there's this notion that arose -- and I wish I could say exactly how long it's been, it's been, it's been around -- but the idea of, that there are, that everyone is a leader in an organization, and there are leaders at all levels, right. So organizational leaders, team leaders, individual contributors who are leaders, that there are leaders at all levels. And there's, the, it became this kind of popular thing to talk about -- everyone, everyone, everyone is a leader in an organization or everybody has, has leadership capacity in an organization and a leadership contribution. And I, and I do think that's true. So not to, not to be a diplomat, too much of a diplomat here, OK. But I do think that's true, I think there's the capability, we see in our organization and have designed our organization so everybody can flex their strengths and, and make a significant contribution to our organization. And you don't have to be leading the entire organization, you don't have to be leading a team, in order to make a significant contribution to our organization. I know a lot of organizations where it's like that. And I think that's useful.

Dean Jones 12:58
I think from a pure organizational development lens, though, right, that the role of manager and the role of leader are different roles, right. And in looking at it at Gallup through a talent lens, we also know from a talent lens, that what it takes to be a leader and what it takes to be a manager, from a talent perspective, are -- while there's some overlap -- that they're, that they are different. And they're different roles, and they have a different contribution in the organization. And we, we expect leaders to be able to come up with strategy and vision for the organization to be able to say, Hey, this is the direction we're going. Here's why we're going there, right? Like that, we, in a way that we don't expect managers to do that, right? We expect managers to be able to translate strategy and vision into, into tactics, right, and to be able to translate that message in a way that we don't expect leaders to be able to do that. So managers have a unique gift, right?

Dean Jones 13:53
The challenge we run into is, when the only pathways in the organization are individual contributor-manager-leader, right? So the only way you get to leadership is through manager, right? And some leaders are just abysmal managers. And that's just the truth. They're just horrible managers. Right. And, but they're great leaders, but they're horrible managers, right. And some managers are just not cut out to be organizational leaders, right. So they, they, they're great, great, great managers, but they don't have the imagination; they don't have the ideation, they don't have strategic thinking; they don't have the wherewithal to become leaders, right. And so, the challenge is that it got arranged in a lot of organizations like, like this linear process, and the implicit expectation was, people should want to move from individual contributor to manager to leader, rather than seeing it as three distinct and disparate, disparate roles inside of an organization.

Dean Jones 14:50
There are people who are great individual contributors and should be individual contributors for their whole career and continually refining their expertise and contributing. There are people whose gift in life is managing people, and they should be managers, and they should manage teams and, and, and really, and do all the things that we know great managers do. There are people whose gift is to be leaders. And, and we want them to be able to be leading, leading the organization and, and creating the vision around the organization. So I'm simplifying it a little bit here. But I think the, my point is, is that from a, from a pure kind of organizational development perspective, there are three different, there are three different roles.

Dean Jones 15:32
The thing that we hope and that we advise organizations is to figure out, how do we, how do you create pathways in the organization for all three? So that people don't have to have an, you know, some people we know come into an organization, they've got extreme talent in management; they should move quickly into a manager role. Right? And we've got a lot in our organization, a lot of young managers who are, who are really talented and really making a difference. We've got people that we know are individual contributors who have no interest or inclination or, or, or wherewithal around management or even leadership, right? How do they have a great career as an individual contributor? And then who are those people that are leaders? And how do we make sure that the role to being an organizational leader doesn't have to go through management? Right? So we have leaders in our organization who have never been managers, and at the same time, they are contributing a huge amount to the direction of our organization. So I think it's thinking, from an OD standpoint, how do we make sure for the that those are distinct roles in the organization with distinct pathways in the organization?

Jim Collison 16:43
I'm glad I asked that question. We've been getting a lot of good feedback in the chat room about it. While it's true, if you said it, I don't, to be a to be a great leader. I don't have to be a great manager. But I could, I could have both those talents together, right?

Dean Jones 16:59
Absolutely.

Jim Collison 17:00
And in theory, I could have all three of those. I could be a great, I could be great at all of those. It starts with the talent, though, right, assessing that talent. What is the talent you have? And where does it succeed? Is that right?

Dean Jones 17:11
That's right. And that's right. And you don't, you know, like, people like Kristin Barry in our organization who leads our talent-based hiring practice would, is probably better equipped to be able to answer this question. But in terms of the incidence, you know, typically as you, as, there are people that have talent in all three domains, but mostly people lean toward one of those domains, you know. So --

Jim Collison 17:34
Great, great. All right. I felt like, we didn't have that on the paper. But I thought that was a good -- I knew I was going to get a lot, I knew I was gonna get a lot of -- we do every time we talk about that, and we bring subjects about. And, you know, there's a lot of questions, and I think it's, it's, it's, it's a question that deserves a lot of thought, especially in an organization that shouldn't just be answered with a cut-and-dry, "This is a manager. This is a leader. These are, these are SMEs," right? I think you really need to wrestle with that in your own organizations and figure out, where do these fit, and how are we selecting for them? You know.

Dean Jones 18:11
Yeah, and I don't think, it's not to diminish -- and I don't want to belabor the point, but it's not to diminish the contributions of anyone. Sometimes. It's like, Hey, if we say these are the people that are leaders, and these are the people that are managers, and these are the people that are individual contributors, somehow that's perceived as, can be perceived as, that we're diminishing the contributions of, of people who are not leaders. Right. And that's not what we're saying. And that's not the intent, right? It's to be clear about each one of those -- at least through this lens, be clear about, What is the role and the contribution of each one of those inside of the organization?

Fundamentals of Strengths-Based Managing

Jim Collison 18:48
Great. Great. Well, let's talk about those fundamentals, then, when we think about strengths-based managers. Give us, let's, walk us through some of the fundamentals, Dean.

Dean Jones 18:56
Yeah. So I think that, so when you start with this notion, what does it mean -- excuse me -- to be a strengths-based manager? It really does start with, what are those kind of fundamental things that you would expect like that? The first is really that you would expect that somebody who's a strengths-based manager is aware of their own strengths and their own weaknesses, right? And it's both, right? Do I know my own strengths? And do I also know my own weaknesses? Because, and what we're talking about there is really just good self-awareness. Do I know what I do well? Do I have a clear sense of my own talents? Do I have a clear sense of the things that are nontalents for me or weaknesses for me, right? And we know those two things are different, right? It includes, but isn't limited to, CliftonStrengths, right? So can I, you know, a strengths-based manager should be able to say, "Hey, here's my Top 5," or "Here's my Top 10," and be able to talk about those things.

Dean Jones 19:45
It, but it also includes strengths with the small s, right. So CliftonStrengths is a language that's designed to facilitate a particular conversation. So it gets us in the world of talking about what do I do well, and it's a great vocabulary for people to use, but we don't want people limited to that vocabulary. So a great strengths-based manager can talk about, Hey, these are some of the strengths I have; these are some of the weaknesses I have, and that, that maybe with the little s, right, rather than the big CliftonStrengths strengths, right? They know what they do well; they know what they don't do well, right. So they're demonstrating, and they're able to demonstrate, good self-awareness around that.

Dean Jones 20:25
So we know that good self-awareness is the foundation for great management. If you don't have good self-awareness, it's unlikely you're going to be, end up being a great manager, and great leadership, from that standpoint. You know, that, that one has to be able to have good self-awareness and also to be able to demonstrate that. So they're able to demonstrate good self-awareness in their communication and in their behavior, to be able to say, This is who I am; this is who I'm not. That's a great model for the kind of self-awareness we want for everyone in the organization. But particularly, you know, we've all, we've all been on a team with, that's, that was led by somebody that didn't have great self-awareness. And, and it's hard, you know, it's just hard, because that person really doesn't, doesn't know what he or she does well or, or doesn't do well. So, so the first piece of it is, to be a strengths-based manager, you really got to invest in having a good sense of your own strengths and weaknesses, right?

Dean Jones 21:22
The second piece that's just sort of a fundamental is, are you aware of the strengths and weaknesses of the people you manage? So they can, they can look team by team, team member by team member and be able to say, Hey, here's the strengths of that person. Here's what I know. And, and again, they know their CliftonStrengths -- that's the beginning. But they also know how those CliftonStrengths executes. All of us, as coaches, who've worked with people know that understanding what your themes are is one thing; knowing how they manifest themselves in, in a, in a, in a human being is completely different. And one of the great qualities of strengths-based managers is they're always listening and learning. So they're always, you know, I find the best strengths-based managers are the ones that are endlessly curious about, about how an employee's strengths are manifesting themselves, right?

Dean Jones 22:12
It's, you know, to be able to say, Hey, I've got Developer^® and Empathy^® and Positivity^® and Learner^® and Achiever^® in my Top 5. How does that combination, how does that combination manifest itself? And literally, they're listening and learning from the employ, from an employee's first day, right? They're, they're, and listening to, Hey, where did they get traction with their strengths? What's that unique combination of strengths gonna be? So they're, it's like they're studying that person all the time to understand how they're wired -- what their natural talents are, what motivates them, when they shine, what creates stress for them, what they do intuitively well, and what they don't do well, right. So they're, it's they're, they're really endlessly curious about that person. Because that's, that, if you're not endlessly curious and listening all the time, if you think you, you know, you just don't get it in one conversation. Because the way somebody's talent, you know, we assess somebody's talent, but then the way as it, as their talent comes in contact with work, right, we start to see, OK, how's it gonna play out? How's it going to manifest itself? What's going to happen there? So I think that the, so, again, a strengths-based manager is really aware for each team member and for the team as a whole, What are the strengths and the weaknesses of the people that they manage? Right?

Strengths and the Difference Between Pressure and Stress

Dean Jones 23:30
We talked a little bit about, you know, one of the things I just, I want to take a little side trip. I think, you know, as your, as a strengths-based manager, one of the things that you're, you're looking at is, Where are, what is the stuff that people do intuitively well, and what is the stuff that people, that creates stress for people? Right? And we know that when you're managing people, there's different, there's a difference between pressure and stress. Right? And particularly when you've got high-talent people, high-talent people love pressure. They love that moment when talent and preparation meet opportunity, right? It's that moment where high-talent people will say, Hey, let me show you what I can do. Right? Put me in, coach! You know, let me show you what I can do. Let me show you how my talents come, I can bring my talents to bear on the work, right? That's different, that kind of pressure is different than stress, right? So we know that great, great, great managers create moments where high-talent people can soar, right? Those moments of pressure, those moments of opportunity where high-talent people can soar.

Dean Jones 24:43
At the same time, they, they try to manage the level of stress that, that, that people experience inside the organization. Stress are those moments where I'm in a situation that's a bad fit for me. It's a bad for my talent. I'm ill-prepared for, I'm ill-equipped for, right. So I'm in this, you know, like I'm someplace I basically shouldn't be, right. And that creates stress, and too much stress is what takes people out. Right? And, and great managers know the difference between, Hey, this is a great opportunity for us to show you what you're do -- this is great. And there's pressure involved in that, right, that moment of, that moment of performance, right? That's different than stress.

Dean Jones 25:26
So, and, in fact, our, you know, one of the fundamentals of engagement is to be able to free, is for managers to be able to free people from, from unnecessary stress. You know, I see it my own life. You know, it's like, ask me to teach, that's what I do. Right? I'll show you what I could do there. Right? If you ask me to sing, we're in trouble. Right? You know, it's like, it's like, how do we, you know, how do you, how do you put people in the situation that's the right situation for them around that, right, and around that. And the, sometimes I think, sometimes you see managers that get confused, and they equate pressure and stress. So they, high-talent people never get a, never get an opportunity to be able to really bring their talents to bear, right. And they want that, right. And if you protect them to -- pressure and stress, you know, a healthy amount of pressure is really, is really good, right? And people want that and need that in order to be able to continue to develop their strengths.

Pressure, Stress and Accountability

Jim Collison 26:27
Dean, another word we use sometimes in this setting is accountability. Where does that, in this idea of pressure or stress, where would you, how would you talk about accountability in this context?

Dean Jones 26:38
That's great. We'll, we'll talk about that a little bit in the next session, I think, but no, it's, it's, it's a great question. You know, is that is we want, you know, part of what we know great managers do is they're studying somebody's strengths, so that they can start to think about, How do we set that person up with, with one opportunity after another opportunity, to be able to use their strengths and develop their strengths? Right? And to be able to do that, with the idea that we're help, we're building kind of a performance pathway for them. Right? We're, we're looking and say, you know, like, sounds, sounds a little Machiavellian, but we're trying to, we're trying to build this kind of performance pathway where we can see, yep, you accomplished this. Now, let's give you the next level of it. Now, let's get you to the next level of it, you know. And there are different people with different philosophies about it. Somebody who's, I have huge respect for as a manager and an organization, and his philosophy is he kind of, he just throws people in the deep end, you know, and lets, and I do think for some people, they just love that, right? It's just like, Hey, I'm just gonna do it, you know.

Dean Jones 27:43
My approach as a manager is a little different than that. I like to, I, it's more like the frog in the boiling water; I like to ratchet it up a little bit at a time, right? But -- and different people like different approaches, right? But in either case, you're trying to think about, OK, how do we help people bring their talents to bear in a way that they can really perform? Right. And then we go back, and to your point, in a lot of, a lot of, there's a connotation around accountability, that it's, that it can be fundamentally negative -- like, we're gonna go back, and were you accountable or were you not accountable? Right?

Dean Jones 28:14
I like to think about accountability in a different way, as it's more like tied to the word accounting, right? How do we track, how do we just count, for you, like, you know, like, let's count, you know, let's count your performance. Let's find out, Oh, you did 6 this time? Can you do 8 next time? You know, and can you do 10 the time after that? How do we count, you know, we go back and just count up what worked and what didn't work, so we know where we are, right? We're all gonna have successes and failures, right? So we go back and as, you know, as part of performance management, going back and just counting up, Hey, this worked. And next time, we're going to do a little bit more of this. And we're going to do a little less of that. Right? And so, as we, as we think about it, so I think that's, you know, hopefully that helps.

Jim Collison 28:59
Yeah, no, I love it. I think it's just a word that appears, and I think it fits nicely in with these constructs of thinking about pressure and stress. I'm the odd one who loves -- I need a chip on my shoulder; I need to be told it can't be done. I need to be, like, "No, that's impossible" -- that sort of mission. Like OK, really? You think so? OK, let's give, let's give it a try. So that --

Dean Jones 29:23
Have you, have you looked at where in your strengths, where do you think that comes from in your, in your strengths?

Jim Collison 29:27
I think, yeah, I think there's a Maximizer of, you know, there's a little bit of an Arranger^®-Maximizer^®, which drives me, to 1 and 3 all the time, to think, like, Oh, well, I could probably come up with a solution for that. I know you're saying it can't be done, but I think we can actually find a way to get it done in some way. And I, I need that, in, in your, in your words here, I need that pressure. Like, I, I want that pressure. Your go-to used to be my go-to, and he used to do that to me all the time on purpose. He'd say, "Hey, can you go break a few rules for me on this thing?" "Oh, yeah! I'm in!"

Dean Jones 30:07
I'd love to, right?

Jim Collison 30:09
You know, you're talking my language, yeah.

Dean Jones 30:10
Yeah, that's what a great manager does. You know, I was talking to somebody the other day and, you know, they were high in Competition^®, and you could feel the heat coming off of them. You know what I mean? Like, it's just like, but this is somebody who always needs somebody to compete with, right? They always need a game to be winning, you know? So, you, it's, it's, this is, a great manager is studying that, to be able to say, OK, how do we get you in the right environment, so we're gonna see -- ? It's like, you know, Jeremy likes to talk about the dials, right? How do we, how do we, how do we adjust the environment just so, so that your unique combination of strengths is going to really soar? Right? And how do we adjust it up and down? You know, and it's sort of an endless game to play. And somebody who's a, who's a strengths-based manager loves playing that game, you know.

More on the Fundamentals

Dean Jones 30:57
Last, last piece I'll just say on the, kind of the, the fundamentals, right, is, a strengths-based manager knows the power of CliftonStrengths. Sounds weird to say, and, and, you know, I, you know, it sounds a little bit like egregious self-promotion here, but I just think, you know, we know, there's just no more powerful tool in the world -- people have tried. There's no more powerful tool in the world for really understanding the unique configuration of someone's talent than CliftonStrengths. And it's so powerful in so many ways. But here's, here's the thing that we know through a management lens: that one of the big powers of CliftonStrengths is it creates this common language for talking about individual differences. I'll say it again, because I think it's so important: It's a common language for talking about individual differences. It's a shared language that people have that's positive, it's constructive, it's inclusive, and it's nonjudgmental. I'll say that again: It's a shared language that's positive, constructive, inclusive and nonjudgmental. So it gives managers this kind of vocabulary, this kind of language to use, where they're likely to be understood, rather than misunderstood. They're likely to be understood. It's a positive language, because it talks about who somebody is as a contribution. Right? It's positive; it's constructive.

Dean Jones 31:27
It's also inclusive, right? We know that CliftonStrengths captures the diversity of the population. The likelihood of having the same Top 5 in the same order as another human being is 1 in 33 or 34 million, right. So we know that it really captures the diversity of the, of the, of the population. The other thing it does, and we've seen this in organizations, is it becomes really the template for helping people to think in an inclusive way. It is a very nonthreatening way to be able to capture the diversity of a population, so that people start and can understand in a world where people are constantly comparing themselves, right, to other people, right, it really helps people to think about the diversity of a group. So it's very, very useful from a diversity, equity and inclusion standpoint. It's not the answer; sometimes people want to make it the answer to DEI, it's, of course, not. Right. But it is, we know that it's incredibly powerful for, for helping to, helping people inside organizations to think about diversity in a new way and for building a really inclusive environment -- it's a really powerful tool for that. We know, by the way, that engagement is highly correlated with inclusion. So organizations that are working on engagement in a meaningful way are more likely to have inclusive environments.

Dean Jones 33:46
The other thing that's nice about it is, and this is where I think managers fumble a lot, is that it's nonjudgmental. So it gives managers and leaders a respectful vocabulary for being able to talk about who a person is, right. The other thing I think is useful about this is, you know, in every organization, there's a range of managers. You got really intuitive managers that really have high individualization -- and I don't mean just the theme Individualization^®, but that talent for really understanding who each person uniquely is. Right? And we know, by the way, we've said this before, but one of the attributes of great managers is, is the, is individualization, right? That talent to be able to really understand each person uniquely. It, the CliftonStrengths immediately makes managers more insightful and more attuned to each person's unique strengths, to each, their unique talents and contributions, right. So immediately, it's kind of like the cheat sheet. So, particularly if you got managers that are just not tuned in that way -- and we all know managers that are just not tuned in that way -- if you, if they use CliftonStrengths, immediately makes them more tuned in, more sensitive to who is that person uniquely? Who, like, what do I need to be tuned in around? Right?

Dean Jones 35:03
It also then elevates the manager-employee contribu-, or conversations, right? So those conversations immediately get more effective and more powerful, because you've got, they're through the lens of my strengths and your strengths, right? So immediately, those conversations start to get more effective and more sensitive. It's just, just simply being able to have a conversation where, where a manager asks somebody, asks an employee to share what their, what their strengths are: "Tell me about your strengths. Tell me what you see." Immediately, that starts to shift the dynamic in, in the manager-employee relationship. Makes me think, you know, one of the common questions I get asked, as people as managers think about coaching, right? So, you know, we talk a lot about the importance, one of the big things we talk about in It's the Manager, and have talked about since then, is the importance of managers being coaches, right? The thing I think is so funny, now, you start to see this in other people's literature, right? So one of the books I'm reading, they have a whole chapter on the importance of managers being coaches, right? Well, you know, we are the ones that really discovered that; we were the ones -- this is sort of my, sorry, if my, my, my, my Gallup pride is leaking out a little bit here. But you know, that, that shift from being a boss to being a coach is so critically important, right? And so, and it really helps, it really helps managers to start to make that transition.

Dean Jones 36:39
One of the questions I get frequently from managers is, How do I -- I don't feel like I've got that dynamic with the people I manage. How do I go from being their boss or their supervisor to being a coach? And the, the challenge where they're asking is, How do I create that kind of coaching relationship with them? Right? And it's, it is hard, and I understand it, you know, particularly if you haven't had that kind of relationship. If you had a different kind of relationship with them, how do you go about creating that kind of relationship? And I think CliftonStrengths, gives, gives managers the opportunity to be able to do that. And it's just simply having, having, having each person be able to share their strengths and being able to listen acutely to that, right.

Dean Jones 37:23
The other piece that CliftonStrengths really helps with is it gives employees self-awareness, right? We know that as employees' self-awareness goes up, it increases the likelihood that they're gonna have job fit. You know, one of the challenges sometimes -- and all of us, I think, do this -- is we have a picture of what we should be doing in our head, right. And it's a picture either we came up with or, you know, somebody else put there for -- our parents or a teacher, a mentor, somebody, put a picture of, like, what we should be doing, right. And oftentimes, those pictures are wrong. Oftentimes, those pictures are, are, have, have no basis in what somebody's talents are, and ultimately what their passions are going to be, right. So when people do CliftonStrengths, it increases their self-awareness, which then increases the likelihood we'll have job fit, and ultimately, great performance in the role. So we also know that strengths, just flat-out doing CliftonStrengths, it's a catalyst for engagement. It's a catalyst for wellbeing. It's a catalyst for inclusion. And it's a catalyst for performance.

Dean Jones 38:25
So the ties between strengths and engagement are powerful. The ties between strengths and wellbeing are powerful. And we've written about that a lot. You know, we've written about that a lot. You know, if you, for instance, if you read our Wellbeing at Work book, you know, there's, there's a whole chapter on the relationship between strengths and wellbeing. And there's also, we go theme by theme, to be able to look at how you can, you can use your strengths to be able to drive your wellbeing. So we know that there's, all those kinds of positive things accrue to managers when they use CliftonStrengths.

Building a Strengths-Based Culture

Jim Collison 38:59
Dean, as you lay this out, one of the questions I often get from individuals, and Alexandra asks this. She says, How can one, as an individual contributor -- we see this in organizations that, where it's not functioning well, right -- "convince" and she put those in air quotes -- the manager and leaders of the power of CliftonStrengths? Can you give, cause we hear that all the time. And it's, as we think about building a strengths-based culture, there's some steps involved in that, but can you give some wisdom on that?

Dean Jones 39:27
I don't know if I've got some great wisdom on this. I think, it was Alexandra, right, that asked the question? Yeah. Alexandra, here's, I don't know that, so I think, so I'll give you a couple tips, OK? I'm not, you know, I'm not necessarily in the tips business, but I'll give you a couple tips. OK? One is, I think you sharing about your CliftonStrengths and your strengths is, is powerful. Particularly, you know, it sounds, when people can, in organizations, when leaders and managers and organizations can see that, 1) is it engenders self-awareness in you; and 2) is it's helping you to be able to perform. When, when they see the connection between strengths and the connection between performance, that is a compelling testimony around strengths, right?

Dean Jones 40:10
The other thing you might do, you know, we're doing this series where our CEO Jon Clifton is interviewing leaders about their strengths. And God, it's just so good. It's just, the one he's interviewed is Tim Shriver, who's the CEO of Special Olympics; he just interviewed Arianna Huffington. It's just, man, I'm telling you, they're just so good. You might share the video of that with the managers and leaders around it, to, so they can see other leaders and how they're using their strengths. We used to have a thing where, years and years ago, where we looked at, we did it, I think, with, with organizations we were working with around the world, where we asked senior leaders to be able to share their strengths and how they used their strengths. And, and this is sort of an update on that. It's really a powerful series. So another tip might be for you to be able to share that.

Dean Jones 41:04
The other thing I think -- it sounds funny, you know, particularly if somebody, if the leaders and managers in your organization are readers, is to share our books, right. And so whether it's, somebody just told me the other day, I was with a leader the other day that just said that the book Strengths Based Leadership changed their life. They just, that reading that book was just so incredibly powerful for them. And so, and so you might, you might do that as well. So those are, in the, in the heading of kind of tips. I think that that's, I think that's important. I think the most compelling thing -- and this sounds, it sounds weird to say, Alexandra, but one of the things I think, I'm gonna zoom out just a little bit, but -- one of the things I kind of see is the, 10 years ago, mostly senior leaders, what they cared about were their customers. So mostly what they cared about is, What are my customers thinking? What am I doing for my customers? Am I connecting with my customers? One of the things that's happened over the course of the last 10 years is, is senior leaders are much more connected to, What is the culture of my company? Are my employees happy? How do I make sure that I'm building a, building an organization that's a high-performance organization?

Dean Jones 42:15
It's why you don't see as much, you know, you know, we're, with the threat of recession, you know, there was the threat that we were going to see massive layoffs. And certainly there were layoffs in the technology industry. I know that; I'm aware of that. But you just didn't see the, the widespread layoffs that we've seen in other times when we start rolling into a recession. Right. And, and I think part of that is because people understand that that, that approach, which was sort of the, you really saw in the '90s a lot, right, that approach is just not going to work anymore, given the current talent environment, given, given, given what, what organizations, what's up, what organizations are sort of up against. That really having a strong and powerful connection with the people in the organization is really important. One of the things we also know on the other end is that, more than ever, people in the workforce expect that organizations are going to focus on development, focus on strengths, focus on talent -- that we know that there's the expectation there. So we know that if, if managers and leaders are slow to, to pick up on that there's going to be a cost to their organization. It's going to have a, it's going to have, there's going to be a measurable impact, just being, just being unaware and oblivious to the importance of culture inside organizations. So --

A Personal Coach vs. the Manager as Coach

Jim Collison 43:42
Dean, another question we get a lot and that you mentioned, boss to coach. And, and what's the difference -- and again, LinkedIn, you guys are coming up with some great questions today. When we think about, and I'll summarize this question, when we think about getting a personal coach versus a manager coaching, is, are we talking about two different things there?

Dean Jones 44:03
Yeah, absolutely. So and I, you know, we have, so I'm going to, I'm going to shamelessly promote, we have two different courses that are designed around that. Right? So our Global Strengths Coach course is really designed for people whose profession it is to coach other people, right? It's designed around being able to equip somebody who's going to become a professional coach, right? We have a separate course that we offer called Boss to Coach, which is really a coaching course, for managers. It's really about how do managers have the right kinds of coaching conversations to elevate engagement, to increase retention, to be able to drive performance in the organization? Our course that's designed for, for managers is our Boss to Coach course. That's distinct from the strengths coaching course, which is really designed for professional coaches. And they really are kind of two different genres.

Dean Jones 44:55
The, the, sometimes you'll run into managers who want to kind of operate like a professional coach. And the problem is, is that the role of coach is different than the role of manager. Those are two different roles, right? And some of the, you know, and I'm going to oversimplify, but managers have an accountability for results that coaches -- someone's going to argue with me and say, Coaches are accountable for results too -- yes, but not in the same way. OK? Sorry. I'm just gonna say it; not in the same way, right. You know, if you're a manager and your team doesn't perform, you lose your job, right? You know, if you're a professional coach, and your teams don't perform, you go get more customers, right? You know, and so, and over time, hopefully, you learn to be a better coach. Right? So, you know, and so it's, it's different, right? And so, so the education around it is different; the conversations are different. And so we want to make sure there's a clear distinction between those two; that's why we have separate courses for that. So if you're a manager, and you want to learn to coach, we would suggest that you do our Boss to Coach course. That course is really a coaching course, for managers. The strengths coaching course is for coaching professionals, right, that many, many of the folks joining this podcast are, you know, and it's really, really people who've really dedicated their life and their livelihood to being successful at, at driving the performance of mostly leaders and managers in organizations. So does that help?

Managing Through the Lens of Talent

Jim Collison 45:21
Yeah, I think so. I think so. It's, I get that question a lot when, since we've been doing that. So can we, let's, let's move forward a little bit. I alluded to, this earlier thinking about talent, but what is the role of talent in this? And, and how does that play into this?

Dean Jones 46:43
Yeah, so I think -- so, yeah, watching the time here, right. So --

Jim Collison 46:49
Maybe a 3-parter and not a 2-parter; is that what you're saying?

Dean Jones 46:53
No, I think we can do it in 2 here. I think that, so there's those fundamental things, right. I'm a, I'm a strengths-based manager. I know, I know, my own strengths and weaknesses. I know the strengths and weaknesses within my team. I know the power of CliftonStrengths, right? I think the next layer up is, is that I, if I'm a strengths-based manager, it means I'm managing the employee experience through the lens of talent. OK, so let me tell you what I mean by that, right? The, more than just knowing my own strengths and the strengths of my employees, as a strengths-based manager, I'm able to, I'm thinking about the whole employee experience through the lens of talent, right? I'm thinking about that in every piece of that. Well, what does that mean, right? It means as a strengths-based manager, I'm recruiting and hiring with an emphasis on a candidate's talent, rather than their skills, experience, knowledge or education, right? We know that skills, experience, knowledge, education -- all those things can be added later. Talent is innate; it's immutable, right? We don't use CliftonStrengths to be able to assess a candidate's talent; we've got other assessments for that, right. But we know that, even though, whether you're using an assessment or not, that you're thinking about, What is the innate, the immutable talent of this candidate? And how's that going to play in the role? Distinct from their skills, their experience, their knowledge, their education, right?

Dean Jones 48:16
So we're not hiring them because they went to Harvard; we're hiring them because we can see a natural talent. One of the, one of the absolutely brilliant things, so Matt, who's our [CHRO], Matt Mosser, who's our [CHRO], talks about a lot is looking at a resume through the lens of yearnings. Right? What are the things that this person is drawn to? What are they -- that's a way of listening for somebody's talent. Where's does that person consistently, we notice they keep getting drawn to? It's a powerful way of thinking about that. So, you know, so strengths-based managers are thinking about talent in recruiting and hiring. They know that one of the fundamental questions that new employees have to answer during onboarding is, What are my strengths? And how will I use my talent to meet the expectations of my role? So from the first days that they're in the organization, as they're going through onboarding, they know how to help employees answer those questions for themselves. Right.

Dean Jones 49:10
Plus, by the way, I notice that great managers also know how to use strengths to undo the damage, the, that has had, that new employees often have from prior managers and prior companies that were not strengths-based. You know, I see that with my own team, as people joining our organization, and they'd been in other organizations that are not strengths-based organizations, and there's insecurities, there's misperceptions. There's, like, what I call psychological bruises that people have from being banged around in organizations that were not strengths-based, right. And a lot of it, and during the onboarding phase, is how do you undo that? Right?

Dean Jones 49:44
Strengths-based managers know how to use strengths to build a culture of engagement with their employees on the, and on their teams, right, knowing that, that having the opportunity to do what you do best every day [item Q03 of the Q^12®] is one of the most powerful catalysts for engagement, right? They know how to work with their teams to develop their natural talents into legitimate strengths. So they know how to use strengths as, CliftonStrengths as a development tool, so that their employees learn to deliver "consistent, near-perfect performance" -- that's our definition of a strength. Employees know how to deliver consistent, near-perfect performance in areas that are aligned with their talents. You know, great, great strengths-based managers in this development lens know that it's not enough just to be aware of your talents; the power of strengths comes from developing and refining your talents into world-class strengths that help you achieve your goals. Right. So it's that ongoing process of how are we, all the time and on an ongoing basis, developing our strengths.

Dean Jones 50:42
A lot of times, it's interesting. I -- sorry, I'm on a side trip here, but I'll come back here -- development is so critical now for organizations. And, but it's so interesting, because a lot of times where people focus on is, What's the programmatic development -- what are the classes that are offered or the programmatic development around strengths in organizations? Am I taking a class on this or not? Or am I doing a learning module or not? That kind of thing, right? When, really the most powerful development that people can have is working for a strengths-based manager. So you've got a really good strengths-based manager that knows how to develop people inside your strengths. That's more powerful than any class you'll take. That's more powerful than any learning module, right? And so, having a strengths-based manager that knows how to do that is super important.

Dean Jones 51:33
And then finally, strengths-based managers know that performance management lives in the coaching conversations that are sandwiched between clear expectations and accountability. Right. And so we know that all performance management, you know, performance management, to your point earlier, Jim, a lot of times, the weight of performance management is all on accountability, right? When the weight's in the wrong place, right? We know that performance management lives between establishing clear expectations and accountability. And what lives in the middle, the meat of it, is those great coaching conversations, right, that a strengths-based manager can provide. And CliftonStrengths provides the framework and the language for those conversations.

Managing the Whole Cycle of the Employee Experience

Dean Jones 52:17
So here's what we know that -- this is kind of the next level up: A strengths-based manager is somebody who can manage that whole cycle of employee experience -- recruiting and hiring, onboarding, engagement, development, performance management. They can manage each stage of that employee experience through the lens of talent, so that they're, so they're able to leverage the talent, leverage talent to help employees thrive and succeed in the organization. So that's, the first level is that kind of like, that's sort of the Jimmy-the-Dunce level, right? It's sort of like the, I know, my strengths. I know your strengths -- that kind of stuff, right? I don't mean to diminish anybody or anything. Right. But the next level up is then, Can I look at, can I look at the, that, that, do I, do I look at the whole employee experience, or can I navigate the whole employee experience through the lens of talent? Right? And, and it sounds like an obvious thing. But you think about, as you think about each one of those areas -- recruiting and hiring, onboarding, engagement, development, performance -- you think about each one of those areas, and you think about, in most organizations, where the weight is, it's not on understanding and cultivating the talent of each employee, right? If it was, organizations would be fundamentally different. People would be like, Hooray, Monday! Right? I can't wait to get there! No, people, we're not, we don't live in a culture where it's, it's Hooray, Monday! Right? And, and, but it's, it's really shifting the axis of, of, of that organization's turnaround, so that it's really oriented around, How do we leverage talent to be able to drive performance? Right.

Dean Jones 54:01
So last, but not least, I'm gonna do one more piece. Is that OK, Jim? Yeah. So the challenge with many managers that want to be strengths-based is they don't know really how to use CliftonStrengths as a tool to drive employee and team performance, right? So what happens is, they sort of reduce CliftonStrengths to a pat kind of team-building exercise, right? So it's kind of like, Hey, I'm gonna do strengths. You're gonna do strengths. We're all going to share about it; we're going to feel good, and then we're going to go back to work, right? As opposed to that it becomes then the, the, it becomes the lens for the work that we're going to do. It becomes the foundation and the shared language that we're going to use for the work that we're going to do. This is the thing I want to start to talk about next time, right, is, How do we move people away, you know, beyond, or How do we move managers beyond just what, what I would describe as talent identification and talent awareness to the, where they're really focused on application? Right? And that's the piece of the next segment that I really want to get into is, How do you really help managers to focus on talent application? I would argue, they don't know how to use strengths to do that. OK.

Dean Jones 55:14
You know, I got probably, I don't know, I got, I got 18 years at Gallup, but about 16 years working in this area. Right. And I think the No. 1 thing that people have, they just, it's not that, I don't think that managers are recalcitrant. I don't think that we, you know, I don't think we have to drag them in; I just think they don't know what to do. Right. And so one of the things I'd like to talk about next time is, in our next session is, specifically, how do you move managers into this talent app, application arena, right? Beyond identification, beyond awareness, how do you move them into talent application? And then I'd like to look at 4 techniques that strengths-based managers use around talent application to drive performance on their employees and teams. So I'd really like to dive into some of the specific techniques around that. I think that'll be particularly useful for the coaches that we're working with. And I think that'll feel relevant. Right. So I think that's it for today.

Jim Collison 56:08
Wow! We're early. This is awesome. I don't know what to do.

Dean Jones 56:15
After, after how many years of doing this? You know, get the timing, right.

Jim Collison 56:20
Are you sure, are you sure you want to wrap that up? When, Dean, just to tease that, well, yeah, just to tease that next session, as we think, on the, on the application side of things. How, you know, how, where does, from, from a manager standpoint, where does preparation settle in, in this arena of being ready to do some of those kinds of things? I think we get so busy, or managers get so busy in the day-to-day that we forget -- or maybe we don't, but we forget that there is some preparation? Can you talk a little bit about that, from a, from a manager's standpoint? What can they do? Or what should they be doing from preparation, working with these individuals and this talent?

Dean Jones 57:04
Yeah, no, I think that's great. It's, it really is the progression we went through today. Right? I think it's and, and literally, it's step by step. I don't want to be too prescriptive, because, because I know that, that, that this kind of development often happens organically, but the, it really starts with, Do managers know their own strengths and weaknesses? Right? Let's start there, right. Now, do you know the strengths and weaknesses of your team? Right? Now, do you know how to start to use CliftonStrengths? Do you know, do you understand the power CliftonStrengths? Right? So I man it, I get in that whole world, and that's really the world of talent identification and talent awareness. I start to become aware of it, and I appreciate it, and we grapple with all the stuff that happens in that world, right? Do I understand it? Do I appreciate it? Do I accept it? You know, am I aware of how my talent is working? Right?

Dean Jones 57:53
And, and there's, and I don't mean to diminish that world, that's a, that's a world in and of itself, right? You know, sometimes people have a real flat understanding of their CliftonStrengths. And it's very, it's very one-dimensional, and you have to help them to broaden that out. Sometimes you have people that don't accept their CliftonStrengths, right? This is, you know, and they want to, they want to believe that they've got different talents than they actually have. Or, you know, and, and they, and they're upset about it, or they're envious of other talents, or, you know, they think they should be somebody else like that. You get, and you have to deal with that whole world of it. Sometimes people don't have good awareness, you know, and, you know, self-awareness is a lifetime game. Right? But, but they don't have good awareness of how their talents and strengths play out. Right. So they don't, they don't relate. So you, in that world, you're dealing with all that kind of stuff, and you really have to have that stuff as a foundation to be able to then, you know, if you haven't done the work on yourself, first, it's hard to do the work with other people.

Dean Jones 58:47
So you've got to have done that work, and then you start doing that work with other people. Once you get that whole kind of world, then it's going to the next level, which is thinking about, OK, you know, in the core, you know, in the core components of the employee experience that I'm responsible for as a manager, right, as a manager in my sphere of influence, you know, we would say that managers are fundamentally responsible for recruiting and hiring, development, engagement, performance -- those are the kind of four core areas that they're responsible for. In my sphere of influence, am I now bring, how am I putting the weight on talent, rather than on other stuff, right? How am I, how am I looking at the whole thing through that lens, so that it's, so that it's developmental in that way. So that's the next place. And then, then from there, you start to be able to, then you really start to be able to do some kind of cool work. That's the thing we'll talk about next time.

Jim Collison 59:40
OK. We have not scheduled next time yet. So if you're wondering, How do I get this goodness? You'll want to follow us on Eventbrite. So go to gallup.eventbrite.com. I will post it there. As well, if you're not connected to me on LinkedIn, you may want to, because we will be now streaming these via my LinkedIn profile as well. Many of you -- 50 of you today -- joined us via LinkedIn. So appreciate that. Another 50 of you joined us via YouTube. That was kind of cool to have that as well; stretched all of my talent to manage both and Dean in the process, but we got it done. I said I liked a good challenge, so follow, connect with me on LinkedIn. Follow us on Eventbrite -- again, gallup.eventbrite.com. I want to remind you to take advantage of all the resources we have available now in Gallup Access. You can check that out: my.gallup.com will get you there. For coaching, master coaching, or if you want to become a Gallup-Certified Strengths Coach like Dean mentioned earlier in the program, you can do that as well. Send us an email: coaching@gallup.com. That email is also good for any questions that you have. You can send that in, and, and our folks on the other end will get that directed. Follow us on any social network just by searching "CliftonStrengths" -- there we go, and we want to thank you for joining us today. Have a great weekend -- for those listening live, have a great weekend. Maybe some of you are already in your weekend. I saw some Australian folks in the chat room; they're already in tomorrow. And so thanks for coming out. With that, we'll say, Goodbye, everybody.

Dean Jones' Top 5 CliftonStrengths are Activator, Focus, Woo, Strategic and Relator.

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