How to Practice Authentic Leadership in Your Coaching

Gallup Called to Coach Webcast Series -- Season 11, Episode 4.

Below are audio and video plus a transcript of the conversation, including time stamps.

Being authentic and bringing your whole self to work has been a hot topic recently. What does that mean for you, if you are in a leadership role? Gallup's CliftonStrengths for Leaders Report is a tool that will move you toward greater authenticity, helping you understand and appreciate your own CliftonStrengths as well as the strengths of those you lead. Learn how you can avoid "copycat leadership" and become a leader who genuinely understands your people in this informative webcast with Gallup's Jeremy Pietrocini.

When we talk about being your authentic self or your whole self, that word "permission" that I mentioned is giving yourself permission to be you.

Jeremy Pietrocini, 8:55

Good leaders are self-aware, but great leaders self-regulate.

Jeremy Pietrocini, 24:56

When we dial up our curiosity, it's a game changer for genuinely understanding those that you're working with.

Jeremy Pietrocini, 34:30

Jim Collison 0:01
I am Jim Collison, and this is Gallup's Called to Coach, recorded on November 22, 2022.

Meet Our Guest on This Episode

Jim Collison 0:20
Called to Coach is a resource for those who want to help others discover and use their strengths. We have Gallup experts and independent strengths coaches share tactics, insights and strategies to help coaches maximize the talent of individuals, teams and organizations around the world. If you're listening live and you don't see the YouTube chat room, there's a link right above me to it. You click on that; we'd love your questions during the program. If you're listening after the fact, you can send us your questions: coaching@gallup.com. Don't forget to subscribe to Called to Coach on your favorite podcast app or right there on YouTube, so you never miss an episode. Jeremy Pietrocini is our host, is our host today. Jeremy works as a Senior Workplace Consultant with Gallup. And Jeremy, great to have you on location. Great to have you. Welcome back to Called to Coach!

Jeremy Pietrocini 1:02
Yeah, you too, man. We were just joking, if we're talking about authentic leadership, I guess an authentic work, virtual work environment from a lobby of a random hotel in Greenville, South Carolina.

Jim Collison 1:12
Well, we are going to give it our best attempts to make this work today. And Jeremy, I want to recognize you. 9 1/2 years ago, you helped me kick off what is today Called to Coach. Hard to believe we're coming up on our 10th anniversary here in July. But you sat with me as we pioneered this program 9 1/2 years ago and got it all kicked off. And then I haven't had you back since then.

Jeremy Pietrocini 1:35
It was, we, yeah, we kind of, we awkwardly wiggled our way through some of those early episodes with guests, man. But yeah, it's fun, fun to just, to see it come to light.

Jim Collison 1:48
So for Jeremy, for those who don't know, let's get this kicked off and get this started. Tell us a little bit about what does Gallup pay you to do? And give us your Top 5.

Jeremy Pietrocini 1:58
Yeah, you bet. So I'm a Senior Workplace Consultant, been with Gallup 17 years. So spend most of my weeks traveling, hence being in Greenville, South Carolina, today. But most days, I'm on site with clients, either advising around data, doing courses around management, leadership, strengths, engagement, and then I get, have the fun opportunity too to speak at a lot of big events. So my Top 5: Maximizer, Strategic, Futuristic, Belief and Connectedness. So I get the chance to use those day in, day in, day out with, with what I get paid to do.

What does "authentic leadership" mean?

Jim Collison 2:37
Yeah, we'll have to work a little bit harder getting you back on, on a more regular basis. Your schedule's pretty tight, so it's hard to, to get you on a regular basis. You're in the lobby of a hotel today, and so we appreciate you coming back today to talk about authentic leadership. And I think this is a phrase, as we've made our way through the pandemic, you know, we've gone through this idea of "quiet quitting" as well. There's been all these kinds of management crises that we thought about. We wrote the book, It's the Manager a couple years ago. So we spent a ton of time thinking about managing. We have the new CliftonStrengths for Leaders Report that just came out earlier in the month. Here at Gallup, we've been spending a lot of time thinking about leaders. And when we think about authentic leaders, although that takes on kind of a different nuance, can you, can you talk about that from, from your perspective, Jeremy? Just so folks know, you work with leaders a lot. And so the opportunity, you have the opportunity to do what we're seeing, and how do we think about this idea of authentic leadership? What, what do we really mean when we say that?

Jeremy Pietrocini 3:43
Yeah, so I mean, if they didn't, if people didn't have the chance to go back and listen, I know there's some previous sessions we just did around this Leadership Report. So Therese has some great insights around leaders, when we're coaching leaders. Do they feel like they can be themselves with us as coaches versus sometimes do they feel like they need to play a role? And you hear it a lot. I know there's other assessments out there, separate from CliftonStrengths, that even talk about your adaptive self, who you are, you know, at work versus at home. And when people actually ask about, you know, Do my strengths change? What does that look like? Again, we got tons of data on that. But I think one of the things that's so powerful is when you think of that word "authentic," it just means genuine.

Jeremy Pietrocini 4:24
So if I'm in Hong Kong for work and want to buy my wife a bag, if it says to me on it, or it says "Louis Vuitton" on it, I want to figure out, is it authentic, right? Is it if, I'm buying it off the street, is it the real thing or not? And I think this is something Bill George even, even authored a book years ago called Authentic Leadership, and then a follow-up on that called True North, where he talks about this whole idea of finding your true north. Who are you? Who are you called to be? Who are you destined to be? Give yourself permission to be yourself. And I know we've talked in the past, Jim, plenty of times, you know, we've had my, my coach, even before I joined Gallup 17 years ago, Michael Dauphinee, who wrote a book -- one of the chapters or sections is on permission. And I think that's a big part of what being an authentic leader is, is giving yourself permission to be you. So play to your strengths, not somebody else's.

Jeremy Pietrocini 5:17
Dr. Clifton, you know, one of his famous phrases, and some people don't like it, but his favorite, favorite quotes is that people don't change that much. And then he went on to say, so don't waste time trying to put in what was left out, but spend more time trying to pull out what's already there. So it's where a leader who has Woo in their Bottom 5 and says, "Hey, can you help me to be more outgoing?" There's things we can work on. But I often will say, "Nope." Trying to move, trying to move Woo from 29 up or wherever it's at. One of my colleagues, or one of our colleagues actually calls that "Foo." So that's fake Woo. They're like, you will show up to the party with a few tips and tricks on how to win friends and influence people. But it will still be awkward for you and others. So be your true self. Like be the Relator, the Learner, whoever it is that you are.

Jim Collison 6:07
One of the things I always talk about -- and by the way, thanks to the chat room. They let me know I was on the wrong microphone. I've been on the camera mic here.

Jeremy Pietrocini 6:15
You just got really clear, man.

Bringing Your Whole Self

Jim Collison 6:17
Well, Jeremy, you could have told me a little bit earlier. We've been talking for the last 20 minutes. So Paul, or Steve, thanks for getting me on the right mic. Hopefully it didn't, wasn't too painful to your ears. One of the things that we think about authentic leadership is it's hard to maintain an act for a long period of time. Right? And so if you're, as you're leading people, if you're trying to be someone you're not, or you're trying to provide leadership beyond the strengths that you have, I think that can only last so long. And then eventually, you kind of, you run out of track, right? I mean, you get to some point where you're discovered, and people are like, Oh, hey. Can you talk a little bit about that, as you work with leaders, maybe this idea of bringing your whole self for, as we really, we look at our, we look at our strengths, really focusing on those, as opposed to trying to fake it?

Jeremy Pietrocini 7:12
Yeah, and I think, I like the phrase "whole self." I mean, our most recent body work from Gallup is Wellbeing at Work. And even back where we used to separate personal life, professional life, people used the phrase work-life balance, and you're like, How do you balance those things? And for decades, we've actually been saying, healthy workplace cultures, it's more work-life integration. My boss knows my family is important to me. And so he'll, he'll force me to take that time off, and some other things that that he knows I really want. And my family knows work's important. So they're fine with me finding a spot in a lobby of a hotel to do a Called to Coach.

Jeremy Pietrocini 7:49
So that that whole piece of, again, finding yourself or being true to yourself, bringing your whole self to work, the other language I really like -- and again, I know, this goes back to Dr. Clifton's early research, when he was studying excellence in individuals and, and teams and organizations -- is he would often just say, How do you, how do you live your, your best self or become your best self? And that whole idea, again, of pulling out what's already there, I think, for, for too many of us -- and by the way, we see this in professional athletes and professional musicians. I don't think, I don't know Michael Phelps, you know, the world's fastest swimmer, and most winning swimmer. I don't know him personally. But I don't think in 5th grade, his parents said, "You're great at swimming. Now test out of that, and focus on all these other things." I think what they did is said, "You're really good at this. So how do we let you become even better?"

Jeremy Pietrocini 8:40
And I think that's that, I think that's that whole idea, Jim, is when we talk about being your authentic self or your whole self, that word "permission" that I mentioned is giving yourself permission to be you. Great leaders know they're not great at everything. And they will just unapologetically and with humility, say, "Hey, Jim is way better at ...," right? So when you and I started Called to Coach years ago, you had ideas on how to do the actual broadcast side of it. I'm like, I'm, I'm out, Jim; you're in. It's now your, it's not your project. That was after week 1, right. So I'm like, I'll follow your lead. But it's, I think it's giving people permission, then, to fill your gaps, to come alongside you and knowing what you're good at, knowing what you're not, and that you don't have to be like anybody else.

Jim Collison 9:24
Well, and I appreciate that. You know, in those early days of doing this, I was, I was really surprised when I came in, and I said, "I have a better way to do this." And you were, literally from that moment on, you were like, OK, it's yours.

Jeremy Pietrocini 9:36
Maximizer, Maximizer No. 1, Jim. All you had to say is "better."

Dangers of "Copycat Leadership"

Jim Collison 9:40
You got this. You got this. And I just remember thinking, Wow. Wow. That's, this is pretty great. We live in a world of, of, I think, as we think of that, it's about being authentic in our leadership of where we spend some time in this, what I'm going to phrase -- and I'm going to steal this from Austin in his article about copycat leadership. In other words, we take a leader. We figure out what they, what they're doing, and then we try to mimic it or copy it. We try to say, oh, I want to be a leader like that. And I think that has some dangers and some pitfalls that are related to this idea of not being genuine or not being authentic. And, and I, it really, I see this a lot on LinkedIn, where we kind of celebrate and lift up these great leaders. By the way, some of them are crashing down as we speak, right, that, that have been lifted up. And so that's dangerous. What are the dangers, what are also the dangers in this idea of copycat leadership?

Jeremy Pietrocini 10:39
Yeah, and I'm, I'm, I'm not a big fan of when we take, like, when we talk about quiet quitting, I think it was started as a positive thing of people that were burning themselves out. But what began to happen with it is the pendulum swung the other way, where it's like, do the bare minimum. Just, you know, basically check out at work. And we're like, no, no, no, no, no. There needs to be healthy, like care about my life and my own personal wellbeing, but give my absolute best every single day. I think the same is true with this idea of copycat leadership. I don't think what Austin was saying or that Gallup would say is, don't model or mimic anybody. I think it's fantastic to have role models, mentors, people that you look up to. I think what the best mentors actually do and say when they coach others, is they, they actually say, Let's figure out your talents, your strengths, your approach.

Jeremy Pietrocini 11:31
The worst, and I've been guilty of this, too, is where I just say, All right, Jim, well, here's how I did it. You're not like, for me, I'm low Discipline. Getting my timesheets done, you know, if my go to, Benjamin, is listening to this, he'll know this is real-life, real-life example after 17 years at Gallup. I found a way to manage that. But what he doesn't do is he doesn't say, "What you should do is so and so on the team that's high Discipline, every Friday at 5:00, here's what they do." Or every day -- he knows that that, it's not, that would be me trying to copycat somebody else, and it might work for a moment. But it's not going to work long term. And I think too many leaders, they go, "I want to be as funny as ..." or "I want to be, as, you know, as, have all the Analytical data, like a Stephen Shields," and, you know, who's a Gallup consultant and phenomenal with throwing out stats. And I'm like, when I first joined this role even, 10 years ago, I was like, Oh, man, that's what I need to do. And then I realized, like, no, he's more of a professor. Right? I'm more of the consultant. So how do we just take our own unique approach? There's skills and knowledge that we can learn from each other and from mentors or others that you can learn from, but giving each other permission to be who you are.

Jeremy Pietrocini 12:41
Curt Liesveld, who, I know when we started Theme Thursday. And Curt's, you know, contributed so much content to, to Gallup and Gallup coaches that will, will live on forever. But again, he would, he, out of the gates would say, Hey, when we colead something, Jeremy, you open up the session, and then bring me in, after a couple hours. You're Woo; I'm Relator. And it was just him giving me permission, and even mentoring me, to say, Hey, here's some things you can learn from me, you know, as a mentor, as a coach, but you be you; I'll be me. And together, we're actually better because of that.

Jeremy Pietrocini 13:15
And there was a lot to be said in that. Because there were times I would try to say something like somebody else, or mimic somebody else that I saw on stage -- a Simon Sinek or a Brene Brown or, you know, it's, Dr. Clifton. You see these people or these videos, and you're like, I need to memorize it and do it that way, and step by step. You know, even professional actors, you know, you know when they're a Hallmark^® actor versus a professional actor. And so I think that's what gets tricky is people just, you know, the detector goes off. And they know when you and I aren't being real, whether we're on stage, whether we're behind closed doors, whether it's even verbiage in an email, people that sniff test, they know if you're being true to who you are or trying to pretend and be a copycat, you know, an inauthentic version of somebody else or something else.

Managers vs. Leaders vs. Individual Contributors

Jim Collison 14:02
I've been doing this role long enough that if I tried to maintain an image or a set of strengths that I'm not, it would have come out by now. Right? I mean, it just, you just can't sustain it for that long and, and, and, and so it's, it's paid, it's paid dividends to just continue to be the authentic me in that. So much so, I remember Curt used to, you know, say, "Jim, I think you have all 34 in your Top 5." Because I'd always, always say, "Oh, it's close. It's close," right, from that perspective. And so just some of that authentic, you know, that authentic feedback. We, last year, Jeremy, we released the CliftonStrengths for Managers Report. And this year, we've released the CliftonStrengths for Leaders Report. In your work, as we -- and I get this question all the time, and I think it pays to probably ask everybody this question: What do you see, how do you see the difference between a manager and a leader? And we know they overlap, but how do you see the difference?

Jeremy Pietrocini 14:55
Yeah, so there's, there's a Gallup research approach answer to this. So even back, and a lot of people know the history of Dr. Clifton; some don't. But he was a professor of psychology, again was coined the Grandfather of Positive Psychology, and then the Father of Strengths-Based Psychology. So his whole body of work in the '50s and '60s was studying what was right with people. And when he began to study excellence, he looked at individual roles, even started a company called Selection Research, helping companies to hire great salespeople or great teachers or great principals and great nurses and doctors. He did the same with people that are in management roles. And by the way, there are people managers, and there are project managers. Not every project manager -- and I was working with an airline that said, "We're all engineers; we don't know how to work with people." And I'm like, "Well, then how did you get, how did you get to the executive suite? Because your job is to lead people, right? You're not building the airplanes anymore at this level; you're actually leading humans."

Jeremy Pietrocini 15:53
So part of what I think is really important, even from a research perspective, but just a real-life tangible perspective, is some of those terms can be interwoven, right. When I'm in an organization, they say, when you say "leader," you say "manager." So the way I often differentiate is if we think about every, every role in a company essentially has three, three buckets it can fall into, which would be leader, manager or individual contributor. The reality is, every individual also plays all three of those roles. So a CEO of a company, the chief executive officer, is the leader. Now, they may have a board of directors and others that they report to. But they're a leader. But they also, in every case, I've, every organization I've been in, they still have a few direct reports. They're responsible for managing those humans. Even if they go, "Hey, I'm not a manager; I'm a leader," I'll say, "Great! you're a big 'L' Leader, a little 'm' manager, but you still have both." And then guess what? Even if you have a fantastic executive assistant, you still need to respond to some emails and do some things on your own. So you are still an individual contributor.

Jeremy Pietrocini 16:56
And I'll often say to people, I'm like, make a, make a little pie chart. And even if I'm an individual contributor, maybe 75% of my pie chart -- of the, my time spent every day every week, every quarter -- maybe 75% of it, I work on the frontlines of Ford Motor as individual contributor. But we would still say there's a little "m" manager, little "l" leader role that you can play. There's a new person on the front lines. You can sort of lead them, coach them to do that. What I think is interesting with this, and then getting back to the report and the distinction, is when I talk about those three roles, if we add three very simple words to them, is "individual contributors deliver"; they get stuff done. So when, when Dr. Clifton was helping hire, and the assessment's called the professional associate interview, they are people that get results, make stuff happen, very self-motivated, self-driven, great thinkers, right, but they deliver.

Jeremy Pietrocini 17:51
For managers, so individual contributors deliver; managers develop. Managers' primary responsibility is to develop other humans, to help them, again, think about your best manager you ever had. They were somebody that helped you become a better version of yourself, helped you get promoted, helped you get better results. They developed you. And then what leaders do is they direct. So they need to step up to that 30,000-foot view and look out and say, "Here's where we're going." In the midst of the pandemic, and you're familiar with our 4 Needs of Followers, Jim, of, from the book Strengths Based Leadership, where you're talking about big "L" Leadership. And by the way, in that book, we highlight four very different leaders, not copycats of each other. They were authentic to who they were. One was more of a Relationship Builder. One was more of a Strategic Thinker. Small children and family just came into the hotel.

Jim Collison 18:44
That's OK; this is hybrid work, right.

Jeremy Pietrocini 18:48
So one of the, one of the things with that is when you think about that role of leader, and even in the midst of the pandemic, people were saying, Is that leader creating those needs that I need of Trust and Compassion, Stability, Hope? Are they giving me that up here? Not just at a local, my manager doing it, or am I providing for myself, but that leadership piece -- and again, if we create that a leader is a director and a manager is a developer, when I look at both of those reports, that's what I like. They're, they mimic each other in some ways. For some people, they play both of those roles, and both of those reports will help. But the Manager Report was great at really thinking about, How do I come alongside others to develop them, to coach them? To make sure, I'm not saying, "Here's how I would do it," but to understand my own strengths and their strengths, to actually pull out the best in them. That's all about development.

Jeremy Pietrocini 19:40
This Leader Report, I believe, enables leaders to move to that 30,000-foot view and to really think about, How am I directing the organization? How am I directing other leaders on my team that again, oftentimes somebody who's a leader has other people leaders under them or other people managers under them. Even if you're leading a department or a project, it's going to help you to really think about that director perspective. So some of the actions very specific to that, again, my same Top 10 strengths that I'm wanting to leverage and move around like tools in a toolbox. But when I realize Self-Assurance is my No. 6, Woo is my No. 7, as a leader, those often pop to the top pretty quickly, along with my Futuristic, to just help me lead whatever group that I'm in front of at that moment in time.

Jim Collison 20:32
I love it. Good, good, I think just a great example of the difference between the two. Although in my role, I move in and out of those all the time. There's lots of times, based on the community, I need the big "L," big "L" Leader on that. Not as much, though, now that I have Austin in that role, he's providing more of that than I am. That's OK. We've kind of divided and conquered. I do the more big "M" managing -- managing the community, spending time boots on the ground, helping people day to day, right, separating those out. But both reports are very useful to me, right, depending upon kind of knowing when I'm -- and some, sometimes I get asked to do leadership responsibilities on the fly. Hey, we need you to think about this. Right. And so there's some opportunities to use both of those. Of course, I use the Sales Report as well, because I sell things through this Influencing role, right. We all do. So we --

Jeremy Pietrocini 21:24
Strengths Based Parenting. I'm like, I missed -- that one, that one came out a little bit too late. My kids were already high school age. They were like, Dad, don't -- it's too late. But all those, yeah, you're right, Jim. All of those different resources that Gallup's written over time, and some of these customized reports, I think the same human can use them in different scenarios. But that creates, at least to me, the distinction of which one do I want to look at in a specific point in time? And again, Dr. Clifton's analogy of great leaders -- and he was, again, talking big "L" Leader -- what great leaders have in common is not that they have the same strengths, right? I mean, tons of research that Gallup has on that. But what it is, is that he said, like a carpenter knowing their tools or a physician knowing the instruments at her disposal, they know their strengths that well and can call on the right strength at the right time. And I think that's that piece of when I'm working with, as a manager or people manager, do I need to dial up my Relator-Individualization a little bit more and connect with that human? And when I'm are Developers another one of my Top 10? When I'm, again, as a leader, is it more my Futuristic, Strategic, Self-Assurance, Woo? And not that I can't use all those in different scenarios, but it lets me apply my strengths in a more meaningful way to accomplish the "what."

What Prevents Leaders From Being Authentic?

Jim Collison 22:43
One of the things Jaclynn and I have -- Jaclynn Robinson and I -- have been doing on the recording, Dr., Dr. Robinson, on the new Season 2 of The CliftonStrengths Podcast is putting the two together and like theme dynamics. So looking at each theme, and then saying, here's what we get from the Manager Report. Here's what we get from the Leaders Report. And how do we think about those two together? So lots of, lots of great stuff going on. We just started recording those, and those will release here early January in 2023. What do you see -- we alluded to this, Jeremy, a little bit earlier, but what do you see is the biggest thing that gets in the way of leaders being authentic? We talked about the copycat, but what else gets in the way of being authentic?

Jeremy Pietrocini 23:23
Yeah, and Jim, you, you might know the date on this. If not, we can get it from Austin and share it with others later. But whatever year, maybe 4 or 5 years ago now, that our CliftonStrengths 34 Report was revamped and came out, added the colors, one of the things we added -- and immediately we got people that loved it, people that hated it -- we added something called "Blind Spots." And what people often, and why we wanted to educate people on it is Dr. Clifton was never afraid to talk about weakness. And even one of the pages in your CliftonStrengths 34 Report, it's page 19 in most people's report, actually says, "What about weakness?" And we just defined a weakness as anything that gets in your way or the way of others. What I quickly figured out is it's not my Bottom 5 of Harmony, Discipline, Consistency that actually get in my way that often; it's actually some of my Top 5, Top 10, like Futuristic.

Jeremy Pietrocini 24:13
And this is where I often remind leaders -- and Jim, I think, I find myself saying this a lot, because leaders just are, leaders are often really good at knowing and they, I think we all heard this at some point in our career at an early age. like being self-aware is really important. Right? Being self-aware is really important. What often happens, though, is CliftonStrengths -- whether it's the Leader Report, Manager Report, Strengths Report, CliftonStrengths 34 Report -- when people know, Hey, I'm high Command, high Activator, that's great. You're now self-aware. But what the blind spots points out is, are those actually your strengths, or are they potentially getting in your way, which actually, we'd call that a weakness?

Jeremy Pietrocini 24:54
So I often will remind people that good leaders are self-aware, but great leaders self-regulate, right? So if you want to elevate your game to be an authentic leader and take it up a notch. I will, I'll remind people, we originally called CliftonStrengths "StrengthsFinder" is how it was originally branded. It was StrengthsFinder, not "excuse finder." And so when people were like, Hey, sorry, I just don't have Empathy. I'm Command-Activator. I'm kind of a jerk. Welcome to the team. Now that you know that, Jim, you're gonna have to deal -- sometimes I'm a bull in a china shop. OK, awesome. He's aware he's a bull in a china shop. But guess what? I have the ability -- and again, when Dr. Clifton said, like tools in a toolbox -- I have some other strengths. If I'm being an authentic leader, my authentic self, the best version of myself, there's something else there I can dial up.

Jeremy Pietrocini 25:41
So Brian Brim, Dr. Brian Brim, who's one of our authors and consultants, coaches, he actually tells a story about an executive he was coaching. The guy's name was Terry. And his team nicknamed him "Take over meeting Terry." And he was that guy -- Command, Activator, Communication, Achiever, like, let's go. And he loved, he knew they'd nicknamed him "Take over, take over meeting Terry." And so he would just be like, "Guess who's here guys? Take over meeting Terry." Whatever you were talking about, doesn't matter. He realized, though, that he was actually getting in his own way. Because his team stopped sharing ideas. Their engagement actually dipped a little bit. They didn't feel cared about. They didn't feel like their opinions counted. And, and so one of the things that he, that our buddy Brian, Brian Brim, coached him to do is he said, "Hey, what if you dialed down blind spot of Command? Right? You're just taking over the meeting? What if you dialed that down?" And then Terry also had Learner and Input in his Top 10.

Jeremy Pietrocini 26:38
So he said, "What if for the first 5 minutes of the meeting -- because you're an Activator, you want to get going -- what if you asked 3 questions before you interjected?" And so Terry actually went to his next executive meeting, said to his team, "Hey, guys, I'm going to, I'm going to dial" -- and he used Gallup language -- I'm going to, I realize my Command's getting in the way," so he's aware of it, but now he's actually regulating it. The blind spot actually even told him that -- sometimes you might be a bully, right? So he actually said, "I'm going to ask 3 questions before I, before I jump in." Now, one of his, one exec, exec team members was bold enough to push back to him. And he actually said, "Hey, Terry, what happens when you don't ask 3 questions? Because you're the boss." So, and Terry actually gave himself some accountability. He said, "If I don't, I'll leave the meeting. Like you guys boot me out of the room."

Jeremy Pietrocini 27:24
And so I was actually traveling with Brian. And he gets a phone call on his on his cellphone. And he's laughing, and he gets off. He goes, "That was Terry. He was calling me from the hallway outside of the board room." And I said, "Why was he laughing?" He goes, "Because he made it 2 weeks before he got kicked out." So he actually, but I think that's, and again, that was Terry being a better version himself, being more authentic. I think what he realized is, what was getting in his way were his "strengths," his dominant talents, and the blind spots of those. And even though he was aware, you're like, if you're aware of it, then, then adjust it. If I'm, if I'm Analytical, and I'm always looking at you with that, you know, kind of resting serious face or whatever it's been nicknamed, it's gonna. But if I'm always looking at you like this, I'm like, there's maybe something else in my Top 10, I can dial down the interrogation, and dial up my Relator and connect with the human for a few minutes before I get back into the question asking.

Using the CliftonStrengths for Leaders Report to Foster Authenticity

Jim Collison 28:22
I want to talk a little bit about, and move away from a little bit of blind spots and weaknesses and talk a little bit of how we use this report for success. I think, you know, I talk a lot. I always got, I always got hammered for talking all the time. People would always say, "Here's Jim. He's gonna take over the conversation." And I think one of those things for me that was really helpful was continuing to put myself in -- instead of dialing it down, figure out ways to find roles and responsibilities that honored that --

Jeremy Pietrocini 28:53
You hosted a podcast.

Jim Collison 28:54
Exactly. Right. I mean how great is that? How great is that? Right? So, so for me, pointing some of my roles and responsibilities and looking -- that didn't happen overnight -- but pointing myself in some of those directions that honored those, in fact, for me, I need to dial it up even more. It's not about dialing it down, but dial up this Communication and Woo even more. How else can we use this report, do you think, to be authentic?

Jeremy Pietrocini 29:22
Yeah, so the thing I love about all of Gallup's writings on strengths, and again, I think sometimes people push back and they're like, "But what about weaknesses? Or what about this?" Again, Gallup would say, if there's something getting in your way or the way of others, manage it. So if my low Discipline is getting in my way, if my high Futuristic, I keep derailing meetings with ideas instead of listening to others, that's where I need to pause. Or if others are disrupting me, right. I own this hotel.

Jim Collison 29:51
It's all good. It's all good. Yeah.

Jeremy Pietrocini 29:54
Please ask permission before you walk into the lobby. The, that's my low Focus, Jim. I'm being authentic with you. I'm like, I can't, I can't not see the bird in the window.

Jim Collison 30:03
No worries.

Jeremy Pietrocini 30:04
Yeah. So part of, part of what is interesting with, again, all of our content and wanting people to say, OK, we want you to manage the weakness. But when you focus on strengths, the thing I love about it is, again, coming back to being your authentic self, who you are, giving yourself permission to be you. For you to be like, you're somebody that maybe your 5th grade school teacher said talks too much, lock him in a room by himself. What you probably had happen at some point is a teacher that partnered you up with somebody else or in a group activity, that let you talk, but in a productive way. Or Jim, you're my assistant today, right? So they were finding a way for you to leverage your Communication talent in a way where it actually let you be your authentic self. This is where throughout most Gallup reports, or in our team sessions, you'll often see the words "understand and appreciate." So do I understand somebody with Responsibility and what that means, right, that they want to take ownership for things, and they don't want me to micromanage them or check in with them.

Jeremy Pietrocini 31:04
The other thing, though, is do I appreciate it? So underway, when I understand it, do I genuinely appreciate it? And again, whether it's one of my own strengths, or especially when I'm with people. My executive assistant has three of my Bottom 5 in her Top 5. So do I understand her Discipline, even though it's low for me? Do I understand it? OK, she has a need for structure. So instead of me trying to loosen her up, or her trying to make me more disciplined, do we actually say, OK, I actually appreciate that. That actually makes me better, when it comes to my calendar or flights and other, other, you know, expenses and things that have a very regimented routine to them. The more I actually appreciate her for that and understand it, and I say, "Hey, I'm not wired that way. But you are." Or I understand my own self and who I am and appreciate that. I think that's one of the things that, again, this Leadership Report, but even knowing a leader, knowing thyself, knowing your strengths.

Listening for Understanding

Jeremy Pietrocini 32:02
And then the other thing, I think, when we begin to listen for understanding. You've maybe heard that. I know, Jim, you've been married a long time. I have too. And the number of times, even from my wife, where there's books written on it, she goes, "You're not listening to me." And I'm like, "No, you said ...," right. And I try to play it back. I've even learned to, you know, one of one of the Gallup 12 elements of engagement says, you know, great cultures and great managers that are coaches seem to care. Like my manager, or someone at work, seems to care about me as a person. And I often joke, because I'll say for those of us with low Empathy and low Relationship Building strengths, it doesn't even say we care; just says we seem to care. So I'm like, I've learned to look at my wife and be quiet and listen and nod. And then she'll say, "What did I say?" And I'll be like, "I don't know. I was trying to just not, not interject."

Jeremy Pietrocini 32:48
But when you truly understand somebody, when you even begin to practice that mirroring activity that great listeners do. "Hey, Jim. So wait, when you were saying that last week was tough -- did I catch that right?" "No, no, no, what I actually meant when I said 'tough' is ...," "Oh, OK." But when we listen to understand, that's totally different than listening for agreement. And I think what authentic leaders do, and even when I say leader, is -- sometimes I'll even do this intentionally, if you look at the direction my hand's going -- I'll say leader, manager, individual contributor. Because I think great leaders are servant leaders that lift up those who are managing the front lines, and those managers lift up people on the front lines to say, "We can't get it done without you." It's not, "Do what I say" -- leading through guilt, fear, shame. It's leading through that servant leadership approach.

Jeremy Pietrocini 33:35
And when you begin to become a leader that wants to genuinely understand others, understand their strengths, appreciate their strengths, you want to listen to understand them, it's a game changer. And this, by the way, I have Self-Assurance and Belief. So sometimes I'll listen. And, you know, Matt Mosser, our Chief People Officer at Gallup says, sometimes, even though he's worked for Gallup his entire career, he's like, "I'm sometimes listening with the engine of my brain revving in the background." Like, Jim, you done yet? Done yet? It's my turn. It's my turn. Right? I know you're accused of, like, when Jim, when Jim's done listening to me, he'll move to the mic. And I'm like, All right, give him space, and red light, green light. But one of the things that, when we can turn off that engine revving like "my turn, my turn, my turn," when we truly begin to understand somebody, and I often will say, dial up your curiosity, and maybe it's your Learner that you have in your Top 10 or your Input, or for me, my Maximizer, I gotta keep digging for that, Jim, when we dial up our curiosity, it's, it's a game changer for genuinely understanding those that you're working with.

Jim Collison 34:38
Yeah, it's been a good, in this role, it's been good for me to have the listening responsibilities. And I think I've actually gotten better at it over practice of moving the mic away, not interrupting, letting the thought get all the way through. That's changed me some in now conversations that I'm having with other people, where I'm kind of listening for, for clues of things they're saying. Yeah, I want to respond back to them. But no, I don't want to respond from my standpoint; I want to respond from theirs. What did I hear in some, and I'm not perfect. But I'm getting better at it.

Jeremy Pietrocini 35:11
In Season 1, Jim, and I, I'm not a guy who loves to go back and watch and listen to myself. I mean, I've done that occasionally. And there's things to learn. But I'm like, oh, man, just hearing your own voice, right. But there's moments where you can tell, like, I'm just, I'm looking at the questions over here that we gave the person and just waiting for them to be done. I'm like, "Awesome. So when you -- " and I didn't absorb what they said; I didn't take it in. Again, and a lot of our coaches know this, but there's some great content, if you just Google the levels of listening, where most of us sitting on an airplane or you know, you're kind of Level 1 listening, when you get to that Level 3, and I think Jacque Merritt's talked about it on some different Called to Coach or Theme Thursdays or different podcasts we've done. But when you genuinely, and again, as an authentic leader, I think when you begin to say, Hey, I want to hear from you all first.

Jeremy Pietrocini 36:01
I was actually on site with Google not too long ago, and they had a brand new leader, and she didn't say anything. We went around the room, people were talking, and I'm like, she hasn't chimed in at all. I'm like, man, I don't know if I need to coach her. She's so introverted. Like, and then she went last. And she actually said, Hey, guys, I know I'm new to Google. But one of the things I learned very quickly is leaders speak last. And so I've been listening to you. And here's some things I've heard. And it was phenomenal. Because I was like, Oh my gosh, she was intentionally doing what you said, kind of dialing up my listening. Now, it doesn't have to be awkward. It doesn't have to be like, Why aren't they talking? If you or I were just like, people are like, what's wrong? What's wrong? Is your mic not working? But I think that's the piece that when you begin to be present with the human, and again, my Belief, Self-Assurance, I have an agenda sometimes, or I have, this is what I'm listening for, or I need to convince them. And when I think about the people who, who most easily follow me or listen to me or take my advice. I was just coaching a CEO yesterday. And when I asked enough questions to really understand, I said, "Wait, let me go back to something you said earlier." When I genuinely understood, and he felt heard, that was the moment where he said, "Yeah, so what would you, what do you recommend on that?" Right? And it was one of those moments where I had to move from coach to adviser, and I shared some thoughts and best practices. And then I said, "Tell me what you're hearing, from what I just threw at you." But I think that genuinely understanding piece, it's just, it's a game changer.

Jim Collison 37:28
Yeah, no. One of the things I've tried doing is going into meetings and not talking at all until I'm called upon. Just sit quietly. And it's, you know, again, it's, and I don't, I don't know if I'd say I'm dialing it back. I'm just intentionally knowing, like, OK, like, I'm gonna let this thing roll. And when they're ready to hear from me, they'll ask. And it's, it's so much better for me. It's even worked better. I now, I now like it more. I used to, you know, I used to really kind of like, my engine would stutter as I was, you know, trying --

Jeremy Pietrocini 38:05
Communication, Woo, Positivity, right, are all three in your Top 10?

Jim Collison 38:08
Yeah.

Jeremy Pietrocini 38:09
And let me ask you this, Jim. Like, in that moment, because I think that's the early-on piece is where, like, you're like holding back this, this racehorse, right? And you're like, but I just want to talk. I just -- but when, when you look at your toolbox, and you go, Wait, Jim, you don't have three strengths, man; you've got, you've got 10 or 12 you can pull from. When, and again, I think you've become a phenomenal host to our podcast, a lot of other components of just who you are, what you do. Which of your other strengths do you feel like you're using? Because I think that's part of being an authentic leader, when you're like, I can't be myself, where like, no, no, no. You've got other, right, so what other strengths do you use when you're patiently listening?

Jim Collison 38:49
Yes, 6 through 10 are all Relationship Building. So Individualization, Developer, right? Those are two that I lean on all the time to think, OK, I'm gonna dive in deep and in the midst of this conversation, how can I individualize what you're saying? Play it back to you so not only I can be developed but you can as well, in the midst of a conversation, right? It's, that allows me those, if I'm thinking with that intent of, you know, making this the best interview I can for you, I'm doing that right now, right. And how can we do it in a way that develops others, develops you as well as others? Boy, that's a win, right, and so that, for me, those are two, I don't talk about those very often, but those are two that I've used and most, the most people around me don't talk about those very often, but it's the two I try to use the most or I've maybe gotten better at of dialing those up.

Jeremy Pietrocini 39:44
Yeah. There's a Chief Legal Officer, she, she has a couple of like you. She has a couple of those Relationship Building strengths in her Top 10. And in their office, and like a lot of our clients, they'll put Top 5 on email. She goes, "Don't tell people I have these. Because these are my ninja skills." Because she's, she, she works in Legal, and she sits in these tough meetings where her Achiever, you know, she's got, she's got a little bit of Self-Assurance. So she's like, I've got that just, just "rip off the Band-Aid^®" approach. But she has Empathy. She has Relator. She, and I'm like, and she knows it. But even for her, as a woman in a senior leadership role, she was often taught, don't be too soft, don't be. But when she finds ways to inject that, it's, it's crazy how much influence and impact she has, by being, again, an authentic leader, her authentic self.

Jeremy Pietrocini 40:33
This is where I think, Jim, when people often, execs will say, but Empathy is 34, or Woo is 34, whatever it is, Futuristic is, like, How do I do more of that? And again, we teach this in basic strengths 101, where like, if you combine two of your Top 10, it can look like something else. Right? So somebody with Learner and Relator can go to an event and connect with humans, and it can look like Woo, right? They're just talking to people in smaller groups and asking a lot of questions. And they may end up working the entire room that night, because they're like, Oh, there's people over there I haven't talked to you yet. So that, that practice of knowing your Top 10, like you said, just dialing some things down, dialing some things up, early on, I think it feels like, "You're not letting me be myself." Or 360s are saying, or your 5th grade school teacher said, "Jeremy, Jim, you guys are talking too much." You know, they're sending a note home to mom or dad.

Jeremy Pietrocini 41:27
So the reality is, we probably were talking too much in those moments. So dialing it down. And then the other cool thing, and I'll just, just, this is just a note for you, Jim, with like, for people out there with Communication, Communication is equally, it's, it's listening, and it's immensely nonverbal. So your Positivity, Woo, Communication are actually being leveraged right now when you're doing this, and you're smiling at me and giving me that, Aw, yeah, that was great. But when it's authentic, right, because again, other people will do this. And they're not even really listening, you can actually see, and I'll sometimes say, What are you thinking about? Right? And my wife's really good at that. She's like, where did you go? Share your Futuristic with me? Is it sunny there? Tell us what, you -- and she'll just, she'll know. I'm looking at her, but I'm like thinking about something else.

Dialing Up, Dialing Down Your Strengths

Jim Collison 42:11
That's so great. I also have Relator in my Top 10. And so that plays a big part in this of thinking about what's going on, you know. It sounds like Includer in this case, but getting everybody, like, wanting to know that everybody knows what we're talking about, right, spending time together. We do have some great questions from the chat. Let's spend a little time doing that. So, so Brooks says -- Yeah, this is new since I've had you on 9 1/2 years ago -- What are your thoughts on having people "dial back" their strengths or finding roles and responsibilities where they can dial them up, dial up their strengths if they're in the same position as others? So we think about, you know, maybe an engineering role, like you were talking about, where maybe some roles and responsibilities are the same for everyone. But we come at it from a different perspective. You know, everybody's a little bit different in this. What do you think, Jeremy?

Jeremy Pietrocini 43:02
Yeah, so one of the, one of the strategies for managing a weakness -- and this is in all those reports, especially the CliftonStrengths 34 Report, I mentioned page 19 says, What about weakness? One of the strategies actually talks about, like, just, again, owning who you are. So claiming, claiming your strengths, good and bad. But to Brooks' point, if it's, if it's in a role, where like, Hey, Jim, you're not paid to talk, man, you're, it might be a moment where you're like, OK, Jim Collison says, get the right people on the bus, but then also get them in the right seat on the bus. There are people all over the world, and people who I talk to almost every day, who started their career in a different job than they're in today. And sometimes it was a job that they liked part of it but not all of it. And by "all of it," it's not, you're not going to love everything you do all day, every day. But one of the engagement questions Gallup asks is, Do I have the opportunity to do what I do best every day? Doesn't say "all day, every day," but every day do I get to use a little Futuristic or Self-Assurance or Woo or Belief?

Jeremy Pietrocini 44:03
So I do think, to Brooks' point, if I'm positioned in a job, what I "get paid to do," or even in my free time, where I'm dialing more of my strengths up, and when I think about my collective Top 10, that's obviously when people are happiest and healthiest. And I say healthiest, because when we're playing to our nonstrengths, I'll even sometimes say to somebody, "Look at your Bottom 5 strengths. Imagine I'm your new boss, and I just rewrote your job description, and it demands your Bottom 5 strengths." And then I'll pause and say, "Tell me how you feel about that." Right? And people will be like, "Ah, do I have to do it?" or "I'm putting my resume together as we speak." You know, it's not that you can't do those things that are Bottom 5. But if you're in a, you're in a job where you're constantly can't be who you are in your authentic self, play to your strengths, A) it may not be the right fit for you.

Jeremy Pietrocini 44:51
When we're in a job, though, and Brooks, kind of what I like again, that dial-up, dial-down. I use that language a ton because I stole it from my coach, Rosa de Koning, 17 years ago when I joined Gallup. She was coaching me; we were both, both based in our Cleveland, Ohio, office. And she said about 20 minutes into coaching, she said, "Jeremy, real quick. When you're grilling on your backyard grill, do you keep the knobs on high the whole time?" And I sort of paused. I'm like, is it almost lunchtime? I don't live anywhere near here. I don't know why she's asking me about cooking. But I entertained her question, which I realized later, she was coaching me. I said, "No! Rosa, sometimes you gotta dial one down and dial one up." But she already knew that, right? She goes, "Your strengths are the same way. Your Maximizer, you can use it in your role. But when you're nitpicking, criticizing everything or everybody, it's going to be exhausting for people and exhausting for you. So maybe dial that down, and dial your Woo up and make things a little bit more fun.

Jeremy Pietrocini 45:46
So I think that's the beauty of authentic leaders are constantly, and Jim, you said this. It's almost like, Am I leading? Am I managing? You're like, Well, I'm doing some of both in this meeting. Or individual contributing, I need to be the note taker; I'm going to be the one at the whiteboard. So I think that's where, you know, life is fluid. And even when we begin to think about work-life integration, I'll sit with the CEO, who will say, "Hold on a minute! My kid's calling." And I'm like, awesome, Talk to your, like, I'm not mad at them; I'm like, "Talk to your kid," right? Now, if the kid calls again 5 minutes later, 5 minutes later, we're like, All right, let's get up the Strengths Based Parenting book and help them, help them help their kid. But the reality is, dialing up down and down is a great strategy. And to Brooks' point, if I'm in a job where I'm dialing to, feeling like everything needs to be dialed down, it may not be the right fit. But that little adjustment of strengths is oftentimes the No. 1 way that people aim their strengths to be most successful.

Jim Collison 46:42
Jess asks a question that's very similar. She says, How would you suggest you coach people to dial up their talents in the workplace when perhaps their roles and responsibilities call for other skills? And I was thinking about, I was driving home. We went out, Maika was speaking across the state, and we drove out to see her. On the way back, she really sparked some, some, some ideas in my head on some things. My wife was there with me as we were listening to Maika. And Sarah is taking like pages and pages and pages of notes. She's a note taker, right? I come back with like a half a page and three cryptic sentences on it. But as we were driving back, you know, both of us struggle with budgeting and spending. And it's been a, it's been a topic, our whole marriage. And so on the way back, I had this thought. I'm like, I said to her, "What if we did a strengths-based approach to this? How do we change our budgeting in a way that plays to each other's strengths? How can, how can we do some things when you're doing, when you're spending, how can you do that in a way that fits the model that makes me comfortable with it? And vice versa?" Right?

Jim Collison 47:49
And so I think sometimes, if we can apply that to the workplace, to say, OK, I don't have those skills -- in this case, you know, we think the skills are the things we actually have to do, right -- talents is the way we get them done. But, and they blend -- they kind of blend together a little bit. But if I think I don't have that, well, change the rules. Like, like, OK, how do we do this, if we think about it from a strengths-based approach, how would we change the rules to make it fit the, what we currently have? In other words, let's change this so that it plays to my strengths, and it plays to your strengths. Thoughts on that, Jeremy?

Jeremy Pietrocini 48:25
Yeah, I mean, A), I commend you. I think the more we practice stuff in real time with the people that are closest to us. So you and your wife having a real-life conversation, right? That, that, and I like the, I like the question, because, and even the word skills you just came back to, Jim, or like budgeting. There are things that I simply call it the "what" versus the "how." So I can't go, Ah, I'm just low Discipline, low Consistency, low Analytical, so I guess I'm just not a good budgeter, Jim. I just don't do that. Again, that to me is ExcuseFinder, not StrengthsFinder. So A) in any, any job, we all have a certain "what." So if Jim and I are in the exact same job, we are both paid to do the same "what." And Gallup would help assess, Can that person do it? Right? Do they have a high likelihood to do the job? What CliftonStrengths then tells us is how we do it. So even with your strong Relationship Building strengths, Jim, and your Influencing strengths, are you doing it sort of with and for other people? With, so my Influencing but then Strategic Thinking, do I need a little bit of that whiteboard space and some thought partners? And so if we can both get the same thing done, the role responsibility skill, then so what?

Jeremy Pietrocini 49:39
And this is where some of you, you can play around with this. If you're not all familiar with Gallup's research around, we call it competencies 2.0, but we actually talk about some of the great qualities of both a great leader, manager, individual contributor, but it's things like decision-making. I could, I could help somebody who has zero, you know, dominant strengths in their Top 10. If they have zero themes that are green -- Strategic Thinking -- but yet they still need to be a good decision-maker, I can still help them to do that. Right. We could look at high Responsibility and say, OK, if you have a responsibility to make decisions in a certain time frame and decisions that have good outcomes and aren't, aren't financially, you know, problematic for the department or the company, that person all of a sudden is sort of woken up to say, Well, I gotta figure out how I do that or who I can partner with to give me that information.

Jeremy Pietrocini 50:30
So this is where, when we define the "what," and even the skill I need to learn, Relationship Building is another one of those competencies. I'm working with a CEO for a financial advising company. He's, he's based in London, and he and his team all know, because we did a team strengths session, they all went through Gallup's 2-day Boss to Coach manager training together, his whole team knows he has zero Relationship Building in his, in his Top 10. I think his first one pops up at like 16. They also know Empathy is -- so he started out sort of ExcuseFinder: Well, Jeremy, good thing is they know I'm intense. And I'm intense at work. And he's, he's a cyclist for fun. But what he did, so he and I had a conversation. He said, "I need to get better at 'role skill' as a leader, Relationship Building. And I need to at least express that people know I seem to care."

Jeremy Pietrocini 51:25
And so what we did, and he came up with the strategy, I said, "When you have a to-do list, what happens?" He goes, "Ah, it gets done." And I said, "Tell me where a to-do this shows up." So he's got them electronically. He also said, "I use Post-It^® notes. Something I got to get done this week, it goes on my mon, hangs off the monitor of my screen." And I said, "OK, what about this? What if you wrote the initials of every, every one of your direct reports." And one of the, one of the things we know for Relationship Building that great managers do is they have one meaningful touchpoint with each person they lead each week. Again, that could be a text message; it could be a voicemail; it could be a pop my head in their office, if I'm, if I work in the same location. He admitted, he goes, "Jeremy, the people that work in this office in London, I will do that." You know, he's got a little bit of Woo, so that's one of his Influencing strengths. And he's like, "I'll pop in and ask them how they're doing." But he said, "One of my colleagues, you know, in EMEA, he's like, I, maybe once a month."

Jeremy Pietrocini 52:18
So he used this, his Achiever, which is a purple Executing strength, to build relationships. And all he did is put people's initials, and he said, "By Friday, if I had to talk to Jim Collison, I'm picking up the phone, I'm going, 'Hey, Jim.'" And they know. They go, "Hey, am I the last one to check off the list?" But what his whole team said is it's made him more intentional. It's made him more available. And he genuinely seems to care about us more. And I actually feel like I've gotten to know him more over the last 4 months that he's been doing that. He's dialing up a totally different color, totally, to build a skill, and again, the skill of Relationship Building, in that case. He's using his own strengths, dialing those up to accomplish that.

Jim Collison 53:01
Yeah, sometimes I wish we hadn't done domains, because they get in the way of like, we get --

Jeremy Pietrocini 53:06
Sheer curtains, not walls. You gotta be like ... different color. Yeah, it's not a, "I don't have that."

Jim Collison 53:13
Yeah, no, I think sometimes without coaching, that can get in the way of some things. And people like, "Oh, I don't --" "No, you do." Let's work through this as we're coaching.

Jeremy Pietrocini 53:21
"Oh, I'm not smart." And I'm like, "Really? How did you just string that sentence together?"

Authenticity vs. Confidence

Jim Collison 53:26
Exactly. One more question from Pam, and then we'll wrap it. She says, I'm curious. Do you think there's a correlation between authenticity and confidence? I think I heard Jeremy say Self-Assurance is his No. 6 or 7, and his authenticity shines through this idea correlation between authenticity and confidence. Jeremy, what do you think?

Jeremy Pietrocini 53:44
Yeah, Pam, thank you, by the way. So the, I actually had --

Jim Collison 53:50
Do you feel heard, Jeremy?

Jeremy Pietrocini 53:52
Yeah. Self-Assurance, by the way, when I first saw it there, I sort of liked. I'm like, it's one of those that whatever the data point is, Jim, I think 7% of people have it in their Top 5, right. So Self-Assurance, Command -- some of those that don't show up as often, sometimes, when they do, they tend to have more edge then. But I think when somebody gave me, I'm gonna go back to that word "permission," when somebody gave me permission to say, "Hey, where is that for you?" You don't have to apologize as much. You don't -- like, just be confident, but also be kind. And I think that's where, again, Curt Liesveld used to say, when we take a "we" perspective versus a "me" perspective. So somebody with Competition, if it's an "I need to win" -- right, all about me, it's gonna have more that edge. If it's a "We need to win" or "I want to help us win," all of a sudden, people want it. It's more attractive. People want to be a part of it.

Jeremy Pietrocini 54:38
So I am a firm believer that confidence and comfort -- am I comfortable being myself? When I'm comfortable being myself, I'm more confident. When I'm more confident, I'm more comfortable being myself. So even things like wear your favorite outfit when you go on stage. You're going in front of a client, right. Some of you are like, Man, I don't, you know, whatever that, I'm like, when you are, when you are comfortable, even just physically comfortable, you can tell when people are uncomfortable. And they're like, and it's hard to listen to them, because their nonverbals are screaming, they don't want to be on stage. They don't.

Jeremy Pietrocini 55:14
I was doing a live call yesterday for a client, and 1,400 people were going to be live on the call. And the CHRO and I were doing this fireside chat. And then she said to the gal who leads their engagement culture endeavor, she goes, Hey, if there's a question, I'm just going to kick it to you quick. Are you cool with that? And you saw that, like, immediately you saw her go, like you want me to speak? And we are, this is preshow, right? She's like, "You want me to speak?" And I go, "Hey, what if she just, what if she just types into the chat?" And you could see, like, she just became comfortable, because she's like, I'm not -- she was even like, Did I even fix my hair? I didn't even know I was gonna be on camera.

Jeremy Pietrocini 55:51
But the more we make sure people are comfortable, and I think, Pam, on one of the No. 1 ways to be comfortable is know your strengths. Give yourself permission to be you. Again, when you understand and appreciate others, when you laugh at yourself and go, Wait, this is my Learner. I just bought all of you, all of you a book, thinking you all love to read, and no, you don't. If you read any of it, read chapter 5. Or if you're not a reader, you want the audiobook, you know, or you want the TED talk. When we begin to just, again, own who we are and who we're not, we're comfortable, we're confident. And again, I think people know it. They know we're not trying to be the Hallmark actor right now who's pretending awkwardly that -- by the way, we still watch; my wife and I were just watching one of those last night. You're like, still watch it, but we know how it's gonna end. But be your true self. I think your confidence and your comfortability will shine through, and people will want what you have.

Jim Collison 56:46
I, for, for me, authenticity comes with a combination of both. If I'm too confident, I come across a little too -- like I need an edge. I need a chip on my shoulder. I need to be, I need something, you know, that, that's kind of holding me accountable. And if I, if I'm just confident, I always, I get too, I get too confident. And then I end up --

Jeremy Pietrocini 57:12
Call it "cautious confidence." I would think a brain surgeon, you don't want one that's like, "I don't know." You also don't -- no one that's just like, Give me the patient!

Jim Collison 57:20
I do no wrong.

Jeremy Pietrocini 57:21
Cautious confidence. Like you're just, you're being mindful of, of it. But yeah, that's great.

Jim Collison 57:29
Jeremy, I think 9 1/2 years ago, you, I and Curt Liesveld got to spend a bunch of time together as we launched this, and eventually would launch Theme Thursday. And we spent so much time together. My favorite moments from those days where we'd often get done with the webcast, and because we all were here in Omaha, we'd meet in the, in the atrium for lunch together and, and talk about what we talked about. But it was a learning opportunity time for me to learn from both you and Curt during those days. And with just some great coaching. So I'll say, "Thank you" for those, as we get, you know, as we fast forward 9 years later, and think about all the inspiration that you gave to me that I could then give to the community. And so thanks for being a big part --

Jeremy Pietrocini 58:10
You're welcome, Jim, but also thank you, because you were the one who was, your curiosity in those moments, you were asking Curt and I questions that maybe we knew the answers to, but we at least together kind of, kind of just dialogued through it. And again, it turned into 10 years of conversation with live audiences or recorded audiences, where they hopefully walk away with some nuggets as well. So thank you, man.

Jim Collison 58:32
You bet. Jeremy, I literally knew nothing when we started this. Like, I knew I could do it. I could do the podcasting bit; I didn't know the info. And I had been an IT manager. I wasn't in the, into the strengths. Well, I mean, I was, but not from a learning standpoint.

Jeremy Pietrocini 58:48
You had lived it, but you hadn't, yeah, you hadn't --

Jim Collison 58:52
I hadn't learned it. And so 10 years of learning -- thanks for inspiring me and saying "Yes" that day, and it's, we're doing this because you said, "Yes." And, and so I appreciate you.

Jeremy Pietrocini 59:01
I still remember -- my door was closed. I still remember you coming down, looking in my glass wall. And I'm like, come on in.

Jim Collison 59:09
Yeah, no, it's, it's great. So I appreciate you and appreciate your, your willingness to believe. And with that high Belief, to believe we could get it done. Thanks for coming out today. Hang tight for me one second. And hey, chat room, show your appreciation in the chatroom to Jeremy, if you would, for me. And while we do that, I'll remind everyone to take full advantage of all the resources we do have available now in Gallup Access that we didn't have 9 1/2 years ago: gallup.com/cliftonstrengths. For coaching, master coaching or if you want to become a Gallup-Certified Strengths Coach, send us an email: coaching@gallup.com. If you want to stay up to date with all the events that we do live, you can follow us: gallup.eventbrite -- B-R-I-T-E -- gallup.eventbrite.com. Don't forget to, you can join us for the 2023 Gallup at Work Summit. Details are now available -- some of them; we'll be releasing them as we go: gallupatwork -- all one word -- gallupatwork.com. Find us on any social platform just by searching "CliftonStrengths," and we want to thank you for joining us today. If you found it helpful -- and I know you did, because I've been reading your comments in the chat, and it says that -- so share it, would you? Take the link, share it with somebody and, and maybe, maybe it'll brighten their day a little bit as well. Thanks for coming out, for those listening live. With that, we'll say, Goodbye, everybody.

Jeremy Pietrocini's Top 5 CliftonStrengths are Maximizer, Strategic, Futuristic, Belief and Connectedness

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