Confident and Competent: A "Lift" for Struggling Coaches

"As a [coaching] community, we are exhausted. We are ... lacking in confidence, lacking in direction. What's the right way to go?" Dani Grieveson, founder of Lift this Life, has solid answers for coaches who are feeling this way. She brings her coaching experience in a wide variety of organizations, including the 2012 London Olympic Games, to the table and is a Gallup-Certified Strengths Coach. In response to COVID, she created the 6 Pillars coaching framework, which specializes in developing people's confidence through their strengths. What can you do as a coach when you're struggling? What questions do you need to be asking yourself about the value you bring through your strengths? How can empathy help? And how can relationships -- with other coaches and people in your life -- move you from a struggling place to a thriving place of confidence and competence? Find out in this thoroughly encouraging and practical webcast.

Gallup Called to Coach Webcast Series -- Season 9, Episode 54.

Below is a full transcript of the conversation, including time stamps. Full audio and video are posted above.

Understanding what energizes each of your strengths is an absolute superpower to keep going as a coach through COVID.

Dani Grieveson, 8:19

70% of people struggle with impostor syndrome.

Dani Grieveson, 20:06

Find those people that make you spark from within and connect with them. That is so powerful in this time.

Dani Grieveson, 37:54

Jim Collison 0:01
I am Jim Collison, and this is Gallup's Called to Coach, recorded on November 2, 2021.

Meet Our Guest on This Episode

Jim Collison 0:19
Called to Coach is a resource for those who want to help others discover and use their strengths. We have Gallup experts and independent strengths coaches share tactics, insights and strategies to help coaches maximize the talent of individuals, teams and organizations around the world. If you're listening live, love to have you join us in our chat room. There's a link on our live page right above me there; that'll take you to the YouTube instance. There's a chat room. Sign in; you can ask us your questions live. If you're listening after the fact, you can always send us an email: coaching@gallup.com. Don't forget -- and many of you do that, by the way; appreciate that -- don't forget to subscribe on your favorite podcast app. You can just search "Called to Coach" or subscribe there on YouTube with the button below. Dani Grieveson is my guest today. Dani has enjoyed a career with companies like Top Gear, Coca-Cola, the Olympic Games, Lord March at Goodwood Estate, Mercedes-Benz, Rolls-Royce -- just to name a few organizations she's worked with. She's experienced -- her experience of leadership, diversity and successful organizations continues to provide knowledge and understanding to powerfully raise those performance of teams and individuals -- we'll talk a little bit about that today. Her Top 5 -- her CliftonStrengths Top 5: Developer, Connectedness, Positivity -- you'll see a lot of that today -- Empathy and Input. Dani, thanks for joining me on Called to Coach!

Dani Grieveson 1:37
Jim, it's a, it's honestly a joy, joy to be here with you and a joy to be with the, with the coaching community. Thank, thank you. I'm really, really excited about our time together today.

Jim Collison 1:46
Great to have you. Let's spend a little bit of time getting to know you. I read, you know, I read a little bit of the bio, but I'd rather kind of hear it from you. So give us a little bit of your background, just, and maybe even how you got to coaching

Dani Grieveson 2:00
Well, thank you. Thanks for, thanks for asking. So I started life making, making Top Gear. So talk about a baptism of fire, you know, blowing up sheds, caravans, testing cars to their absolute limits. And you probably all know Jeremy Clarkson: "Power, power," is, is certainly, certainly his, his approach. And then I did a little bit with Coca-Cola on the Olympic Games, London, London 20, 2012 -- looking after torchbearers, so anyone that was special and extraordinary enough to carry the Olympic flame around the U.K. and Ireland, ending up at the opening ceremony where the, where the Olympic flame is lit -- absolutely incredible. And then worked at, worked at Rolls-Royce, Rolls-Royce motor cars too, to name, to name a few. So the picture I'm painting, painting, it's high performance and high pressure, have certainly been, been in my background. Then I did some performance coaching in the automotive sector and, and set up on, on, on my own. And I absolutely love what I do.

Dani Grieveson 3:03
I discovered strengths on a leadership course and out on top came Developer. So it made sense that I was, I was absolutely brought alive by working with torchbearers -- extraordinary people on the, on the Olympics and, and coaching in the, in the automotive sector. But equally between my, between my work, I've done volunteer work out in, out in India, so working with children that were either abandoned or abused or children that are trafficked into the, into the sex, sex trade. Helping teach them English or dance -- not that I'm a very good dancer -- but just, just children's subjects. But it really did bring me alive and deep fulfillment to, to help celebrate the talents and gifts that these, these children, children had over, over in India. So all of this, combined in the melting pot, I thought, "You know what? This, this is what I am, I am born, born to do is help celebrate and, and develop, develop leaders and teams.

Jim Collison 4:03
What do you think -- in your own coaching, as you look at your Top 5, you had mentioned Developer already -- but if you were to kind of put together that Top 5 in a statement about yourself, how do you, how do you coach, based on your Top 5? Can you, could you put that together for me, just in a little summary?

Dani Grieveson 4:19
Ah, thanks, Jim. Nothing like a question off the hoof, is there? Thank you, thank you so much. Essentially, it comes down, it comes down to, to deep and significant relationships. Certainly my Top 5, Connectedness -- all about connecting with people, building, building bridges, finding, finding common ground. Positivity, you can, you can hear it; I can't get away from it. And Empathy, certainly that, that non, nonjudgment of those that, those that I work with. And it's very common for me and probably many other coaches to hear, you know, "I've never told anyone this," or "Does this happen to you a lot that people just offload?" So Empathy is, is really, truly my secret weapon in, in my, in my coaching, coaching style. And in fact, if I may say it, just what I did my TED Talk on -- the subject of Empathy, how we use it to build, grow and create cultures, and perhaps a country, like Jacinda Ardern in New Zealand.

Changes in Coaching Because of COVID-19

Jim Collison 5:13
That's great. And we're talking about confident and competent coaching. So that's going to be a kind of a theme throughout our time here. As we look back, you know, we're 18 months into this, this COVID experience that we're in. Can you give, give me a little background for you? What has that done for you? Let's, let's start historical here for a second. Think back to March of 2020. How have things changed for you and your coaching due to COVID?

Dani Grieveson 5:41
Well, I mean, unquestionably, it's all gone, it's all gone online. So that Connectedness that I mentioned -- those deep, significant relationships -- having to engineer those on, online with, with people and teams. And I know, I echo the rest of the coaching community -- that, first and foremost, has been, has been a huge challenge in navigating, navigating how we, how we operate. I mean, I don't know about, about you, but certainly a lot of people started COVID on Skype. It was just the platforms we started using. And then it was navigating which, which platform is is the best, best for, for us. So that quite simplistically. And I think generally for all, all of us has been, has been a challenge.

Dani Grieveson 6:22
But then, then the the, the, the excitement of working from home, I really did feel that after March, after about 3 months, really did weigh heavy on, on everybody, be you a coach, a financial leader, a lawyer -- whoever you were, the impact of working, working on, online and remotely really did begin, begin to weigh, weigh heavy for, for, for all of us. So that has what, what has really helped my business pick up is people in, in their productivity, confidence and performance as we work from, work from home.

Jim Collison 6:59
There's been some, I think I've said this publicly a couple times, there's been some things that, because of COVID, like, you know, that's a phrase we're gonna say a lot of -- "because of COVID," right -- that I've, I've actually liked. I mean, it, the results of things, I've had to change some behaviors. I've had to do some things differently, even, when we think about it, what I do at Gallup. Are there any things that, that, over the last 18 months it forced you to do, especially from a coaching perspective? That you go, "You know what? I'm gonna keep it! I'm not, even if things change," I mean, even if tomorrow we went, it went back to normal, and we know that's not gonna happen. But what, what good things -- you have Positivity high -- what good things have come out of this experience for you, especially around your coaching?

Dani Grieveson 7:45
Well, first things first, if I may say. It's an absolute joy to work in your slippers. I've gone through a couple of pairs of slippers. I'm not scared to admit, it really is a comfort to work in your slippers! But quite, quite honestly and earnestly, I think most people here will, will be tuned in to their strengths and, and know and understand their strengths. And for me personally, the power of feeding our strengths on a daily basis has really, really shown its weight in terms of energy. So I think understanding what energizes each of, each of your, your strengths is an absolute superpower to keep going as a coach through COVID. So understanding how you energize yourself through the lens of your strengths is, is, is absolutely magnificent, in terms of energizing you as a coach to be able to deliver consistently through COVID, and, and moving forward.

Jim Collison 8:44
Couple, you know, Kevin, Kevin says in the chat room, he says he's kind of a sneaker guy himself. And that has, I mean, I think, I mean, dress code is certainly, you know, is, is one of those things. From your coaching itself, so the way you're, you have, are interacting with people, how has that changed? Has there been, like, are there things, the way you coach or the way? You know, I know we went virtual, but let's go a little deeper than just saying, "Well, it's just, it's just virtual." Anything that you would pull out of that that you'd say, "Man, I learned this during it, and I'm gonna hold on to this for sure."

6 Pillars: A Coaching Framework

Dani Grieveson 9:20
Oh, 100%, Jim. In, in COVID, at the beginning, I developed a coaching, coaching framework for, for myself and for my clients. So how I develop people has really, really, really been strengthened in, in COVID. And the process that I've developed, it's based on, based on 6 Pillars. Am I allowed to say what they are, Jim?

Jim Collison 9:42
For sure.

Dani Grieveson 9:43
So with, with teams that I work with, it's 6 Pillars over 3 months -- this is the process. And with individuals, it's 12, 12 sessions, so 3 months, and 2 sessions on each pillar. So those pillars are, if I just go, go through them with you, is No. 1 is Clarity. I get really, really clear on why we're here. What are we doing here? What brought us, brought us to where we are needing, needing coaching? What does this look like? What does success look like crucially? So we spend a lot of time getting really, really clear about what we're doing. No. 2 is Confidence, my absolute wheelhouse -- I love, I love this. And of course, strengths is the perfect vehicle to develop people in their, in their confidence, so that -- once I've got clear on everything, that is where I bring, bring strengths in. So No. 2 is, is Confidence.

Dani Grieveson 10:34
No. 3 is a pillar that I call Focus and Discipline. Now we all know that these, these are strengths, but as human, humans, some of us are acutely focused; some of us are really not focused. And some of us are disciplined about things that aren't necessarily good for us. So I look at where we dial up and dial down our Focus and Discipline. I love that, love that one.

Dani Grieveson 10:55
Then the fourth pillar is Routine. So what are our great habits? And, let's face it, COVID and the pandemic has really taught us the importance of routine. Here in the U.K., we were allowed out for one glorious walk. And if that wasn't part of your routine, you certainly knew about it. But it's not just, not just that; it's morning routine, evening routine, what are we doing to get to our success as part of our routine? Aristotle, arguably the founder of Western philosophy, he said -- I love this -- "We are what we repeatedly do. We are what we repeatedly do." Excellence, therefore, is a habit. Excellence is a habit. So I like to get my clients to their excellence. So Pillar 4 is Routine. Sorry, Jim, two more --

Jim Collison 11:42
No, keep going, you're on a roll, keep going. I have people who are like, "Slow down! I'm trying to write this thing!" Keep going.

Dani Grieveson 11:48
And No. 5 is, is Fulfillment. And let's face it, the last 2 years for most people haven't brought much fulfillment because we haven't been connected with the people that we, that we love. So I really deeply look at what people's fulfillment is. And again, those energize us through the lens of, lens of our strengths is fantastic for helping people find fulfilment. I mean, we all know as coaches that when we use our strengths, we're 3 times more likely to report an excellent quality of life and 6 times more likely to be engaged at work. We all know that. But I really dig deep into how our, how our strengths bring us greater fulfillment. I love that piece; it's absolutely pivotal for me.

Dani Grieveson 12:32
And then the final pillar, No. 6, is one that I call Success and Sustainability. Success -- are we where we said we wanted to be when we started? And sustainability -- not in terms of electric vehicles, but sustainability in how do we keep momentum of what we've created moving forward? So those are, those are the 6 Pillars that I develop people within, and COVID gave me the opportunity to research and develop those and, and indeed execute, execute those.

Coaches Who Struggle With Confidence, Impostor Syndrome

Jim Collison 13:00
Where do you think today people struggle -- of those 6 Pillars, what are people struggling with? Or what are you seeing trend-wise? Where are they really struggling the most in those 6 Pillars?

Dani Grieveson 13:13
I think it depends, it depends, team, team to team and person to person, Jim. But I would, I would identify that the, the most hunger I feel from my clients are in Confidence, certainly, at the moment. And I love, I love this, when people come to me, struggling with their confidence, I absolutely light up because I know that I can really help them. And then the fifth pillar, Fulfillment. There's been a, there's been a real examination of what, what brings us fulfillment, and this is affecting people at the lowest rung of the career ladder and equally super high net-worth clients that I know, you know, where is their fulfillment? I, I've worked with people that are moving country as a result of their lack of, lack of fulfillment through COVID. So Fulfillment and, and Confidence, I would, I would say, Jim, are the, the most hunger I feel.

Jim Collison 14:07
Do you feel like that's different among your coaching peers? I mean, if we think about coaches that are, that are out there today and their personal wellbeing, their personal, how they're feeling kind of in this moment, would you say, if you used your pillar structure to where they're struggling, would that be different or the same?

Dani Grieveson 14:29
The coaches, I'm really, really fortunate in that I'm very connected with some great coaches. So I do, I do hear what Brene Brown will call the rumbles of what's, what's, what's happening. And yes, I do believe that there is a confidence deficit in some people's coaches, but equal -- some people's coaching, Jim -- but equally, I feel some coaches have a real hunger to maximize and optimize this time. But I feel that the, the deficit amongst the coaching community at the moment is certainly in, in -- I don't want to say, yes, I would go as strong to say as impostor syndrome, which, of course, has, has confidence, confidence layer, layered underneath, underneath it. And again, this is something that I, I absolutely come, come alive, alive within.

Dani Grieveson 15:29
Can I just reflect something, something over to you? So this, this is a really, really good book, really valuable book in developing people in their, in their confidence. It's by a woman that was educated at Oxford University, Katty Kay. You may know her; she's an American, American journalist. And she says that the 3 biggest killers of confidence, three biggest killers of confidence are, No. 1, people pleasing; No. 2, overthinking; and No. 3, dwelling on defeats. And if we think about it as coaches, because, you know, I make no bones about it, you know, it's not been, it's not been easy, easy sitting right here either. So overthinking, people pleasing, and dwelling on defeats.

Dani Grieveson 16:11
As coaches, we do this a lot. Of course, inherently, we please people; that's, that's our jobs -- to empower, inspire, encourage, coach -- people pleasing. Overthinking, well, sometimes, particularly those with Maximizer that I've worked with quite, quite closely can go into over overdrive. And dwelling on defeats -- there, there have been so many defeats for each of us in the last 2 years. So I just want to reflect those back, because those are the 3 biggest confidence killers. So amongst the coaching, coaching community, I am seeing a, a sense of impostor syndrome -- and am I, am I right for this person? Am I good enough for this person? Am I the right, right, right person? And, you know, I, I, I've experienced people, people that have had to go and find other jobs, you know, take, take themselves away from coaching. I know a couple, couple of people that have actually had to go and find, find other other work as, as a result, which is not what we want for the community, surely.

Jim Collison 17:16
I was, in the preshow, I was talking to you a little bit about how I see the movement of coaches, you know, around the world. And, and I've seen, you know, a full third of our coaches database has changed their email address. That doesn't always mean that they're, they've moved, but for a lot of folks, they have. Carolyn had asked this question about, she wants to hear a little bit more about this idea of boosting confidence. And I'm going to ask you this question, Dani. If you were to give coaches advice, you know, many of them were in an organization 18 months ago, and they're not in that organization today. Or, like you said, they were coaching independently, and it, and when, when COVID hit, that dried up, and they had to take a job. They've changed. So what kind of advice would you give to coaches around, What could they be doing to kind of rebuild that confidence, reboost that, you know, this, this, this idea of having confidence in what they're doing? What kind of advice would you give them?

Dani Grieveson 18:13
Jim, thank you so much for asking me this question! But I don't think we've got, we've got long, long, long enough. But the steps that I would begin to take in building, building your confidence is look at your Top 5. Look at your Top 5. Take out this fantastic resource, which I'm sure, as coaches, we've, we've all, we've all got. I have little notes in it and keep it right, right next to me. But then look at your Top 5. So first things first, look at your Top 5. And then in your notepad, take your, take your notepad. Don't write this on a computer, don't write it, don't, don't just think it -- write this down! Write this down! Because by writing things down, you open a neural pathway in your body and you set a groove deeper, but write this down: Through your strengths, through your strengths, what is the value you bring? The value you bring? So that could be 5 bullet points; it could be 5, 5 pages. But through your strengths, what is the value that you bring? Because that will be the first steppingstone for you moving forward in building, building your confidence: knowing and harnessing the value that you bring.

Jim Collison 19:22
What, why do you think, why is that a struggle for people? Like it -- and not just coaches, but in the folks that you're working with, you see that idea of confidence. And, you know, you mentioned and the, you know, the word "impostor syndrome" has, has resonated well with the chat room at this point, as, as they're spending some time talking about it out there. Why do you think that's such a problem? What, what, what are the underlying, and if you were to say, even, even to individuals you're coaching, if you were to say things we could be doing to start rebuilding that confidence, what kind of advice would you give or what would you have them do?

Dani Grieveson 19:59
Well, first things first. If the chat is going alive about impostor syndrome, I want you all to know you're in great company. Because 70% of people struggle with impostor syndrome. That's the International Journal for Organizational Behavior: 70% of people. So 7 in 10 of us struggle with impostor syndrome. This fantastic woman, who you sure know, Sheryl Sandberg of Facebook or Meta -- whatever it's being called at the moment -- she even talks in her book about struggling with, with impostor syndrome. But Jim, was the question, Why is this, why is this a, why is this a challenge?

Jim Collison 20:35
No, my question is more of if it's out there, and we're struggling with it, right, how do we, what kind of things, what would we do? What could we start doing to change that? You know, if I'm having impostor -- in other words, I don't, I don't belong here. By the way, I have impostor syndrome every day in this role that, you know, people are always like, "Oh, you're so confident." And you're like, "Ah, I just totally fake it." Right? And that's not totally true. But, so if we're struggling with that a little bit, what kind of things can we do? What kind of exercises can we go through? How do you help people build that confidence in, so they can begin to move on from that?

Dani Grieveson 21:14
Well, Jim, and particularly with your, your high Woo, that's going to come across as confidence. And yeah, often, often behind that hype, high Woo, isn't that confidence that sometimes, sometimes back that up. And I make, make no, no bones: I think it's fair to say we all struggle with our, with our confidence at times. Steps that I would take, take me back to when I was training with Gallup to become a coach. And one of the quotes that truly resonated with me, and I don't know if it does with you, is Ralph Waldo Emerson, although the accreditation of that is somewhat disputed. Ralph Waldo Emerson said, "What lies behind us" -- as in what's gone -- "and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us." "Tiny matters compared to what lies within us." And our strengths are within us.

Dani Grieveson 22:11
And perhaps it's that as coaches, we get so focused on people that we're coaching -- the other -- that we, I wouldn't say forget what's within us, but we lose sight of what's within us, I'll put my hand up and say, I know I don't do enough work personally on my strengths. I, Input's No. 5, so I spend so much time researching for my clients, making sure I've got the right and accurate information and data -- as you can see here, it's all highlighted. I, I love that. But actually, do we spend enough time pressing into what is within us? Because in these times of uncertainty, lacking confidence, the only place that confidence and certainty can come from is within.

Celebrating Small Wins

Jim Collison 23:00
I heard a coach, and I think this was on -- and I do so many of these, I kind of forget where the source is. So if I'm quoting you, and you're listening, I'm sorry. But I was doing an interview, and someone had said, you know, "Oftentimes, when we're struggling with confidence, we can fall back on some, some smaller tasks that we know we can do and do well. And just do them to get them done, to rebuild that confidence. In other words, so if I have a, if I have a task ahead of me, you know, thinking about, "Oh, I've got to go get this thing done." But I'm just struggling in it. Go back and do some things that, that I know how to do, that I know I can do well, and get some small wins. Like get those wins going, get that momentum going.

Jim Collison 23:43
So then, as I come back to that task that I was struggling with, I've got some positive momentum going forward. Right. Just a little tip, little technique to kind of trick ourselves into thinking like, "No, I've had 3 successes already. I know I can do this," instead of coming at it cold. Anything, as you think about that, those, those techniques, anything that you've seen that works really well like that for people, to kind of help them rebuild that confidence or restore that, that, that confidence?

Dani Grieveson 24:12
Well, you're speaking someone with high Positivity who is all about celebrating the small wins. So yes. And the other important thing in celebrating those small wins, Jim, especially in this time at home, is connect with someone who can celebrate them with you -- be that a colleague, be that a fellow employee, your best friend at work. And otherwise, your best friend, your mum, your partner -- who can celebrate those, those small wins with you? Connection is so, so important. I mean, the great Brene Brown said we're hardwired for connection. So I would encourage that we align with someone who can, who can celebrate those, those with us.

Addressing COVID-Based Exhaustion

Jim Collison 24:57
As you're thinking about community, then, how's the coaching community? In your, as you see it, you're connected to other coaches and, and you're looking at it. How are we, 18 months, 2 years into, into COVID? How do you think we're doing?

Dani Grieveson 25:15
Honestly?

Jim Collison 25:17
I wouldn't want it any other way.

Dani Grieveson 25:18
I wouldn't be any other way. Honestly, I think, I think a lot of the, a lot of the community is exhausted. I think there's, you know, we, we put on our, on our page, didn't we, Jim, that, you know, 40% reduction in job quality, you know, the research that Gallup did with the Melinda and Bill Gates, Bill Gates Foundation. That research is not for employees at Google or legal firms or financial institutes; that's us. That, that is us, us as coaches. And McKinsey research shows that 9 in, 9 in 10 of employers know that COVID has had an impact on their employees.

Dani Grieveson 26:01
You know, there's, there's a recognition that workers -- and we as coaches are, are workers. Yes, this is our calling, but we're workers as well. It's had an impact on, on our mental, mental and sometimes, sometimes physical, physical health. So I know that as a community, we are exhausted. We are some, some lacking, lacking in confidence, lacking in direction. What's the right way to go? You know, a very common phrase at the beginning of the pandemic was to get a response to an email, "Well, we'll wait till this blows over." But it's not blowing over. So people are just trying so hard to maintain a rhythm, a momentum, power in their, in their coaching, that I, I speak to people quite, quite regularly and there is, there is a general sense of exhaustion.

Jim Collison 26:50
What do you think we could do as a community? So as we think about, you're talking to, you know, potentially thousands of coaches who listen to Called to Coach. And if you were to kind of think about some advice, OK, we're here and we get it. What can we do now? What kind of things -- give me some ideas of things of what you think we could be doing.

Dani Grieveson 27:12
Well, so, Gallup's, you know, we know that Gallup done loads of research, but weekly feedback, weekly feedback, people are 3.2 times more likely to agree that, agree that they're doing outstanding work. So my question is, as a coach, who can you go to for weekly feedback, recognition? Who can you say, "Hey, I think we need to check in with each other at least once a week." Maybe it's, maybe it's not even a Zoom call. Maybe it's a WhatsApp, and just recognize what we're doing. Celebrate those successes. What's gone well this week? Who have you connected with this, this week? So I, for me, it's, it's about recognizing, connecting and celebrating as a community together.

Jim Collison 27:59
I wouldn't even, I wouldn't even discourage Zoom calls. I know, everybody says, Zoom fatigue. And listen, those things aren't real if you're getting fed in them, if you're getting encouragement through them. But, you know, early in the pandemic, I set up a couple of calls. And I've, I've mentioned this on programs before. I set up a couple of calls with a couple guys who I knew I could rely on every single week. And those became very important times for me. Those became very important feeding, and we did a lot of laughing during those, you know, guys that I just get along with really, really well. I think, I think coaches need to kind of consider, you know, if there's, if we're struggling with confidence at this point, if we're struggling with encouragement, I think -- you can't do this alone, right? This is kind of what I hear you saying, one, we can't do this alone.

The Power of Relationships and Meaningful Conversations

Jim Collison 28:47
Two, we need to, we're gonna need to be a little proactive about reaching out to others and having meaningful conversations. We know this from our research as well. We know that in this, in this, you know, we have this Boss to Coach Journey, right, of making, of turning managers into coaches as we're doing this. And we know from that research that individuals are really looking for one good coaching conversation a week. That's kind of the, that's kind of what we're seeing as the standard, right, as far as them being engaged in what they're doing. Coaches, are you getting one good coaching conversation about yourself a week? Like, who have you set up? (This is rhetorical, Dani, unless you want to share this.) But coaches, who have you set up to be your manager? Now it doesn't have to be in the traditional sense of them managing you, but Dani, do we, don't we need kind of a manager relationship or at least another coach relationship for ourselves in this? What do you think?

Dani Grieveson 29:46
Jim, absolutely, undoubtedly. I myself have a, have a coach, but I do, I do regularly communicate with, with coaches in, in our community. And one thing that I think it's really important that we as coaches -- and I love that you said about a coach being a manager, you know, we have a manager, we have a leader that we, we reflect, reflect to. Let, you know, let's go back to basics and look at the Q12 survey. Answer those questions yourself, as a coach. Go through those. Who's looking at your, looking at your progress? Who is your best friend at, best friend at work? Go through the Q12 for yourself. Let's go back to, back to coaching, coaching basics. Answer those for yourself.

Dani Grieveson 30:26
But honestly, if people take nothing else from this podcast, it is find that best friend, that manager that you can connect with on a weekly basis. And to circle -- I hate that phrase, "circle back" -- but to go back to what you just said, Jim, about laughing with these people that you connected with, actually as, as part of some of my confidence-building programs when I work with teams, I actually do a segment of the session saying, What has made you laugh lately? What has made you laugh lately? Because through COVID, there's been a distinct lack of joy. Let's face it. And by people acknowledging what's made each other laugh -- it could be my dogs playing together; it could be I watched this great comedian. You know, everybody has a different response to what has made them laugh. But actually the the science behind laughing -- I've done two, two stand-up comedy courses, because I think it's a great thing to promote joy. It's brilliant. It actually helps reduce, reduce our stress levels. It boosts our immunity. So let's press into what has made us laugh? I think it's, it's really powerful. So thanks for, thanks for bringing that up, Jim.

Jim Collison 31:32
Yeah, no, I think it's a good, it's a good point. I don't think I realized the power of laughter in it. The key was, for me in this, was that I, I reached out to individuals who needed nothing from me, right? This wasn't, they, in either direction. I wasn't, I wasn't managing them. And I'm using air quotes as the term "managing," right for that. I wasn't leading or directing; they didn't need from -- and likewise, I didn't need anything from them. Those relationships that I built -- and, and maybe I'm just discovering this right now, as we're thinking about this together -- those relationships where we decided to connect because we needed each other, we needed that time, we enjoyed that time together. Instead of having either a top-down or a bottom-up relationship associated with it, that may have provided more value for me than I, than I actually recognized. I might be recognizing this in real time right now. Those, and I think in our, in our, in our coaching community, we have this opportunity to connect with others where, where we don't need things from -- does, is that making sense? I don't need things from them; they don't need things from me. But we need each other. Does that makes sense, Dani?

Dani Grieveson 32:43
Jim, absolutely perfect sense. Thank you. And, you know, just to bring it, bring it in, there's, there's someone that I know will be, will be watching that I connect with regularly, and it's not a, "What can you do for me? Where can you get me? You know, what doors can you open up?" It's a, it's become a really trusted relationship, a really trusted relationship. And that's someone, someone within, within our coaching community that I'm absolutely honored, honored to have that kind of relationship with. And we've been able to do that online. It's only a relationship that's blossomed through COVID.

Dani Grieveson 33:19
But you're absolutely right. We've just really enjoyed celebrating one another, going through the very personal at times tragedies in COVID. Because I think, you know, it's fair to say we've all had a few tragedies. You and I spoke of one before. But everyone's had trauma, difficulty, personal relationship, financial woes in COVID. And actually finding the people that genuinely care in those times and that you can connect with with no expectation other than they're there to support. I've, I've really relished the richness of our Gallup coaching coaching community in this time. So a big, big thank you for you, Jim, leading that.

Jim Collison 34:03
Yeah, well, listen, there have been others I've leaned on in our community. You know, being in my role here is to kind of make sure everybody stays on the track, right? And if they get off track, put them back on. But there's been folks around me that I've leaned on -- and it doesn't, I don't know if it necessarily needs to be one person either. I mean, it can be a group of people fulfilling different areas. But it, I think the intentionality of it, of, if we're struggling with confidence -- and it, I think it's hard, Dani, when you're, when you're in this mode of you're struggling, right. It's hard sometimes to get yourself out of it alone. Right. It's, it's hard, I think, for some people to say, "Well, I'm just going to start doing things." There are some that struggle with that. And, and I think you've got to ask for help, right, in those cases. Don't you think there are, at times when we're struggling with confidence, sometimes the hardest step is asking for help?

Dani Grieveson 35:04
Oh, definitely. Yeah, Jim, undoubtedly, because you're not in, you know, you're not in that mindset, when you're in a deep dive of everything's wrong essentially, that you can, you can think pragmatically and logically. But, but for me it, you're absolutely right. It is two things: It is asking for that help, that, that courage, that, that strength to recognize and realize and say, "Hey, I could do with some, some support." And that is a really brave and difficult thing to, difficult thing, thing to say.

Dani Grieveson 35:37
But the other thing that I want to, I want to say that if people are in that mindset, that they don't feel that they can reach out, feed yourself on what is good. Press into the people, as in, you know, podcasts, books that do nourish. Because if we spend our time doing things that aren't good for our brain and putting rubbish in, we are ultimately going to get, going to get rubbish out. So if you are in that mindset where you feel the, "'I need some support right now' is too much," nourish yourself on, on what is, what is good.

Jim Collison 36:11
Yeah, no, I like, I like that. I think, as you were, as you were talking, I was thinking about this spinning wheel that, you know, there's folks who are stuck, that they could go into, and it would fling them out, you know, would give them some momentum. It would, they're stuck. And sometimes they just need to be in groups. And, and maybe those, you know, maybe the folks that they reach out to for help aren't the ones that they develop long-lasting relationships with, but that sometimes you just need a relationship to unstick you. Right. You're, you smiled, and you're shaking your head like maybe you've had that experience before, or maybe you recognize that. Anything else you'd want to add as we think about -- because sometimes it's getting off center, right? Getting unstuck is a monumental experience all in itself. Anything else you want to add to that?

Dani Grieveson 37:01
Yeah, and Jim, there are people that are in our lives for a season. Of course there are. There are, there are people that come, come into, into our live, lives for a season, undoubtedly. But there are also some absolute rockets in our coaching community. And you know, that you can just fling them a little message and say, "Have you got 20 minutes?" And sure enough, you know, a couple of hours later, you're on a call, and they are, they are setting you back on on fire. And, and I've got to really raise up our coaching, coaching community because there have been a few people that have certainly, certainly done that fought for yours truly, and I, and I hope equally, equally the same. And we've all heard of Maya Angelou, she's got some, she's got some great quotes. And one that's really resonating for me just to, just reflect to everybody is, "Nothing can dim the light that shines from within." "Nothing can dim the light that shines from within." So find, find those people that make you spark from within, and connect with them. That is, that is so powerful in this time. That is so powerful.

Jim Collison 38:03
Yeah. I think I would say, don't, you know, don't always assume it's going to hit you on the back of the head, either. Sometimes these relationships that you need are subtle. And sometimes there are people reaching out to you, you know, I've gotten notes, you know, via Teams internally. And I've said, "Hey, how's your day going?" And they go, "Terrible." And I'm like, "You got a minute?" You know, and not necessarily to reach out to fix that, but to listen, to hear. And for me, sometimes those conversations that start that way are actually, actually more encouraging for me than it was for the person who called. Like, I almost needed, I needed to spend time giving into someone else's life to get back something that I -- in some cases, I didn't even know it. Right.

Jim Collison 39:00
And so I would, I would encourage coaches to, to, to listen carefully to the conversations that you're having with both your peers and those that you're coaching. Because you may see moments that, if you're not listening carefully, you'll miss when someone says, "My day is terrible," or, or "great." OK, like let's, let's dig in a little bit to that as well. Any, Dani, as we think about this time, if you think about the last 2 years on this, any stories or a story that would, for you, as we think about this topic today of building confidence, put a little -- let's, let's make this real. Can you, can you bring an example of either someone you worked with or even yourself where this played out -- this idea of building confidence in coaching?

The Benefits of Empathy

Dani Grieveson 39:47
Yes, but before that, can I just say about that person that has reached out to you saying, "I'm terrible," and then you're like, you get more out of it, out of it. So I'd love to tell you, tell you a great, great story. But you say you got more great out of it -- because I just did my TED Talk on empathy. I researched all sorts of things about, you know, when we show empathy, what happens in the body. And the science is really interesting. The biochemistry actually adapts in the body when we change from a mindset of stress and selfishness to a mindset of care and empathy.

Dani Grieveson 40:17
So what happens, and you may have felt this, your -- when we move to that mindset of care, so when that person has said, "I'm terrible," and you go, "I'm just here to listen." You know, "Let me hear, let me help you." When you move to that mindset and place, your, your heart rate decreases, slows down, and your vagal tone, which is the ability to relax and return after stressful events, is strengthened. So you're, you're, you're scientifically better when you care and show empathy to people. But what I will say, having Empathy really, really high and also being a coach, and I know that we're speaking to a lot of coaches, is have boundaries around that. Have boundaries around your care and empathy. Because we all know when you pour out way too much, I've got a GP, a doctor client with Empathy No. 1. When you pour out too much, you exhaust yourself. So just be very, very careful around how you, how you manage, manage that.

Jim Collison 41:16
Yeah. But I love the idea of when feeling down, reach out to help someone else. It's a really, you'd think that that's counterintuitive, like ah, but it's incredible how that, like you said, it changes the body chemistry. We begin to think beyond ourselves. When I'm stuck, I actually, it's almost a technique I've started using now, is I go unstick someone else. Like, OK, I'm stuck. So let me go use that energy to help someone else get something unstuck. And in the process of that, that often solves my own problem. Like, it's the weirdest thing. I, you know, but now that I know, through your, through your TED Talk, it's, it's body chemistry, right? It's, our chemistry actually changes. So that's, I love that. I just, I even get excited about thinking about today. I'm like, "I wonder who I could help today?"

Jim Collison 42:10
Now I spend a ton of time. I mean, this is kind of the secret of my job, is I spend a ton of time helping people all the time, right? People with questions, people like "Hey, how do, where do I find this?" "Where do I get that?" "How do I get this done?" "How do I do that?" That's actually me, getting that giving, right? It's that giving a part of it -- that, that feels good. Like, I like doing that. So, hey, couple questions from the chat room. Lisa had asked this earlier in the program. And she just wants to know, What strength do you use to get all this stuff done? Like, you know, as you think about your Top 5, what's your "doing"? What drives you, as far as getting stuff done?

Dani Grieveson 42:50
Honestly, my No. 1 is Developer. I am so hungry to develop people and their performance and their confidence. I I absolutely love it so, so much. And honestly, serving people, helping people, delivering really, really powerful, powerful sessions for, for leaders and teams. I've got one, I've got to create one tomorrow, and I'm so excited about it, for a team next week. I'm so looking forward to it.

Resources to Build Your Confidence

Jim Collison 43:17
Can you talk a little bit about using that book The Confidence Code with your clients? How are you doing that?

Dani Grieveson 43:24
I simply use it -- Thanks, thanks for asking. I simply use it as a reference because a lot of, a lot of clients ask me you know, how they can, how they can develop or any resources, resources, I'd recommend. Another one that you may or may not know that is absolutely phenomenal is Victor Frankel's Man's Search for Meaning. And this, he was a psychiatrist that was in three concentration camps. And I just picked it up, Jim, because of the point that you were making about, you know, this, this care. And he talks about his attitude in a given set of circumstances, how we have the power to choose that.

Dani Grieveson 43:56
But the point and part of that book, so, Jenny, to answer your question, it's references and resources that I offer to my clients. This, he actually, as a psychiatrist, was dealing with a lot of people with depression. And he prescribed -- this is back in the, back in the '50s -- he prescribed that the people dealing with depression volunteer in libraries and with community groups -- volunteer, so offer their time to help people. And he found that their depression alleviated as a result of volunteering their time for other people. So thanks for, thanks for making that point. And that's another great resource as well.

Jim Collison 44:31
Yeah, it's, it's just an incredible technique to really get, you know, if you're, if you're deep, if you're stuck, if you're diving, however, it's spiraling, downward spiral, of, of serving of serving others or helping others or, or, or doing something different to help where it changes things and pulls you up. I just can't, I can't emphasize that enough. It gets, for me, you know, it's, I asked you a question early, What would you keep from COVID? The, our COVID time? What kind of things would you keep? And those immediate, you know, for me -- I'm going to ask you this one more time too -- for me, one of the things I learned in the coaching community was when people had a question, answer it as quickly and then as personally as possible. And I'm a terrible typer. I just, I'm not good at typing. Like, I hate it. I hate writing. That's why I'll never write a book. And everybody says, "Well, just, you know, do that voice dictation." So I don't want to do that.

Jim Collison 45:32
But, so my emails are terrible. Like, they're short; they're not very, there's just no compassion in them; they're just, they're just all business. But when I can get somebody face to face, right, when I can get somebody on a Zoom call; when I can see their body language, like this is what makes this so effective, this one on one, it's so much better for me. And I'm not going to go back to -- and so I try to do less emails, and more, "Hey, can we just connect on this thing?" Right? That's again, something I'm taking away from that. Any, in your coaching, any techniques that you've, that you've seen come up out of this time, that -- and maybe an example -- where you're going to keep this thing moving forward, regardless of if we're, if we're able to meet in person again, or not? Any, any of those you want to share?

Dani Grieveson 46:24
Yeah, certainly, certainly some of the relationships that I've developed developed in COVID, but also some of the, some of the tools that I use in my coach, in my coaching. You, one that's been an absolute powerhouse in developing people is something on, on Cascade, which is to bring a need. You know, what do my strengths bring? And what do my strengths need? And that I have found an absolute magnificent tool for developing people, certainly in their confidence. And for us, as coaches, it's something really, really good to go through, you know, what energizes us through that through the lens of our strengths? I'm certainly, certainly keeping that and certainly keeping some of the, some of the incredible rhythms and relationships I've developed with the, with the coaching, coaching community.

Jim Collison 47:08
Yeah, any, Dani, any additional, as we think of additional advice? Again, you've got coaches, where, as we spend this time together, any, any question or anything, I didn't ask you that you'd like to share with the community before we kind of answer a few more questions from the chat room and then maybe wrap this up?

Dani Grieveson 47:25
I think, yes, I, one, a couple of things. One is, is self-care. A client of mine actually said this, and I love this, and so I've stolen it. "It hasn't been a time for self-care at all. It's been a time for super self-care" -- "super self-care." And I think that's brilliant, super self-care. So as coaches, I think the power of this in developing our confidence, our style as, as a coach, because, as we spoke about before, it's something that we can often forget: What's within us? Who am I? Because we get so other-, other-centered. So, so looking at what, what supports our wellbeing, because we know that people that feel burned out are 63% more likely to take a sick day at work. And as coaches, we don't want that. So look after yourself. So self-care. And secondly, really simply, just write this word down. Just write this one word down: Believe. Believe. That's it.

Jim Collison 48:29
Have you been watching Ted Lasso?

Dani Grieveson 48:31
No.

Jim Collison 48:32
Oh, you haven't seen it? That's a, that's a phrase they use. By the way, I wouldn't recommend everybody watch that. But that that is a phrase they use. He, he also uses a phrase through that series, or an idea, of being curious about people. Be curious. Like, I think this is a time, especially as we're as we're emerging, or as we're changing out of this, is for, for us all to be curious about each other. You know, I, you know, what, you Dani, you said a lot of things today in this, right? And it's, it's piqued my curiosity in some ways. I kind of want to spend some more time kind of thinking like, OK, tell me a little bit, you know, tell me a little bit more about, you know, you mentioned this, this TED Talk on Empathy.

Jim Collison 49:21
And you mentioned this, you know, how the outputs in our own body. Tell me some more about that. I think this is the time as coaches -- and I think maybe just as humans -- for us to be a little more curious about people. Right? What, what's going on there? How are you really feeling? What, what's going on? Let me, we'll do a little bit of practice. Dani, you've been spending 45 minutes -- 50, we'll say 50 minutes -- with us talking to the coaching community. How do you feel right now? I mean, what's, what's genuinely -- don't give me the pat answer. What's genuinely, how do you genuinely feel right now about your time speaking with me and speaking to the coaches around the world?

Dani Grieveson 50:00
Well, I think, I feel real is, is, is the honest -- you know, I feel authentic. You know, I have exposed some of what I, what I do. Some of it, some of it you may feel is great; some of, some of it, you may not feel is great. But I genuinely feel authentic. And that's, you know, like you said about the honest, that's the only place that I can work from with, with the people that, that I, I love to work with. And actually, Jim, you saying about some things in your head.

Dani Grieveson 50:26
I've got one client in particular who, who came on board, thought what I did was absolute fluffy, a real man of a man's industry, you know, proper, proper blokes, very earthy. And, and he just said, "You've really sparked some things in my, in my head." And actually next year, I'm designing a program to work with his whole team for the next, for the next year because of the sparks he's had in his, in his head and how it's, how it's lit things, lit things up for him. So it's a real, truly a privilege and a pleasure to do what I do. But I feel, I feel, Yeah, to come back to your question, I feel authentic. And I feel, I feel so warmed inside to be part of, part of the connections in the coaching community that I'm truly privileged to be part of -- truly; that's not any corporate answer or anything. That is that is truly how I feel.

Jim Collison 51:12
Yeah, I think, for the folks joining us live -- if you're listening to the recording, and many of you will, a lot of those same comments from the chat room today, just an authentic, encouraging. Lisa had said she was glad she woke up at 6 a.m. to spend, you know, for a 7 a.m. start to get some energy going here. And of course, we appreciate those that are out there listening today. Dani, it's always great, I enjoy spending some time with you. I got, last time I saw you, we were in London, we were together, it was pre-pandemic. And it was such a great time. By the way, that was a fabulous time for me -- one of my, maybe one of my career highlights was to spend, because I got to see, you know, we did all these recordings, and I got to see all these coaches. The recordings were OK; the best part was just the conversations that we got to have, yeah, kind of together.

Jim Collison 52:02
I guess I want to encourage people, if you're struggling in this -- as a coach, if you're struggling, if you're feeling alone, or your confidence is down, or you have impostor syndrome, or you're feeling like, "Ah, I'm never gonna, I'm never going to get this thing going," I think the message is reach out, right? Find, maybe go help someone, maybe just go help somebody. Go help somebody else get off center. And I think sometimes there's some possibilities. Dani, last call -- anything else that you want to say to this community? You got the opportunity to do it. How do you want to, how do you want to wrap this time that we've had together?

Dani Grieveson 52:34
Yeah, I think, I think just to, just to illuminate what you've just said, Jim, it's so important to, to reach, reach out and connect, because we don't know that you're struggling, suffering or feeling despondent if you don't let us know. So do, do, do reach out. That, that's really, really powerful. And the, the other thing is to say, you know, Jim, thank you for leading this so, so well. I feel really energized as a result of going through all of these, all of these highs and lows of what the pandemic has meant and what we've learned for, for moving forward together as a coaching community.

Jim Collison 53:08
One quick question, before we go -- I'll sneak one in from the chat room. What are you excited about coming up? What's, what's on the horizon for you that gets you kind of excited around coaching? Anything ahead that, that you're particularly excited about?

Dani Grieveson 53:21
Yes. Thank you so much for asking: Raising my impact, developing people. That is what I'm really excited about.

Jim Collison 53:31
That seems too easy. You'll have that done in a day!

Dani Grieveson 53:34
No, not the way I want to! Like meaningful, significant impact for people to feel raised up to perform in their, in their work and daily life. That's what I want.

Jim Collison 53:44
I think there's never you know, everybody needs a coach -- we've been saying that for a long time. I think there's never been a more critical time than that. But I think maybe not a coach to tell people what to do, but to experience life with them, to go through it with them and build that into, them build this confidence back, back into them. We know in those 4 Needs of Followers that Stability has never been -- from, from a leadership standpoint, and as a coach, I think you're a leader, you know -- from a, from a leadership standpoint, there's never been a more critical time to build Stability into people's lives. We're just going to need it going forward. It's a crazy, just a crazy time. Dani, thanks for spending the hour with me. I think I'm super encouraged. Like, the only problem for me about getting these done early in the morning -- it's afternoon for you -- but early in the morning is now this is the peak of the day. What else, what else could be better? So Dani, thanks for coming out and being part of it. I appreciate it.

Jim Collison 54:45
A couple reminders for folks going forward. One, take advantage of all the resources we have available. Dani mentioned a bunch of them. And, and so they're not available on Gallup Access, but we have a lot of things that are. So if you head out to gallup.com/cliftonstrengths, you can sign in there. Of course, your Strengths report -- I mentioned, as coaches or leaders, and if you haven't gotten access to your CliftonStrengths for Managers report, I think that might be the best report for coaches we've ever done. So, head out there. It's available for you if you want to purchase that or unlock it, make it available for you. If you have any questions, you can always send us an email: coaching@gallup.com. Dani, if folks wanted to connect with you, what's the, what's the best and easiest way for folks to connect with you?

Dani Grieveson 55:25
Well, first things first, thank you so much, Jim, for including me. And my company is Lift This Life; Lift This Life. I'm all about raising people up. So "lift" as in "elevate," Lift This Life; people can get in touch, in touch with me there. Thank you for asking, asking that, Jim, and thanks so much for including me, including me today.

Jim Collison 55:40
Yeah, no, great to have you as well. You can, of course, find us on any social platform; just search "CliftonStrengths." And we want to thank you for joining us today, especially the chat room. They're all fired up. So I appreciate -- they're gonna go out and serve people today, which is super great. And chat room, thanks for coming out. We want to thank everyone who came out live. And, and I'll say this: If you found this helpful -- and listen, many of you did -- share it, would you? Would you take it, take the link, take the YouTube link, go post it to folks who maybe need a word of encouragement today. So we want to thank you for coming out. And maybe some coaches in your community that didn't get a chance to listen to it, share it with them, encourage them as well. Thanks for coming out. With that, we'll say, Goodbye, everybody.

Dani Grieveson's Top 5 CliftonStrengths are Developer, Connectedness, Positivity, Empathy and Input.