Coaching Sales Performance, Part 2

Dean Jones, Global Talent Development Architect and Senior Learning Expert at Gallup, was our guest on a recent Called to Coach. In Part 2 of a series on coaching sales performance, Dean reviewed and then expanded on his sales advice in Part 1. There are 4 or 5 key factors for those who want to be successful at sales, including drive and building confidence, and these can be grounded in a wide variety of Top 5 CliftonStrengths. Dean also discussed the role of ego in salespeople and the need for coaches to allow room for that in their coaching. Understanding the 3 primary types of sales can give coaches a better grasp of how to coach salespeople, and it can help salespeople get better at sales.

Gallup Called to Coach Webcast Series -- Season 9, Episode 16. This is Part 2 of a 3-part series on coaching sales performance. Access Part 1 and Part 3 of this series on coaching sales performance.

Sales is an area where fundamentally, it's facilitated by technology; it's facilitated by process. But really, human performance makes a big difference.

Dean Jones, 8:14

Every high achiever has an ego. And you got to fall in love with that ego and have space for that ego if you're going to coach salespeople.

Dean Jones, 17:38

As I'm looking at [a salesperson's] themes, and I listen to them talk, and I hear them talk about the way they work, ... I'm always trying to find their engine.

Dean Jones, 22:56

Jim Collison 0:00

I am Jim Collison, and live from our virtual studios, this is Gallup's Called to Coach, recorded on April 9, 2021.

Jim Collison 0:19

Called to Coach is a resource for those that want to help others discover and use their strengths. We have Gallup experts and independent strengths coaches share tactics, insights and strategies to help coaches maximize the talent of individuals, teams and organizations around the world. If you're listening live, love to have you join us in our chat room. There's a link right above me there to that. It gets you on the YouTube page with the chatroom. And if you're listening after the fact, you can always send us your questions, and many of you do: coaching@gallup.com. Don't forget to subscribe on your favorite podcast app, whatever they happen to be -- Android or iPhone -- or subscribe there on YouTube, and you'll be notified every time we post something. Dean Jones is our host today. Dean's the Global Talent Development Architect and a Senior Learning Expert for us at Gallup, as well as the chair of Gallup's Diversity Council. Dean, it's always a great Friday when I have you on Called to Coach. Welcome back!

Dean Jones 1:05

Thank you. Happy to be here.

Jim Collison 1:07

We are in Part 2, which we have no idea, now after talking to you, how many parts this is going to be. So I'm pretty excited, pretty excited for that. But we want to go back a little bit to Part 1. So maybe for folks who are coming in, if you could kind of give us the purpose and rewind us just a smidge on what we covered in Part 1.

Dean Jones 1:24

Yeah, no, that's great. And part of it is just because we recorded Part 1 first thing in the morning, and I was barely awake, and pretty much nonverbal. So the whole goal of today is to make sure that things that I said last time are clear.

Jim Collison 1:41

For sure. And I thought you were great. But give us a quick, give us a quick summary.

Dean Jones 1:45

I will. So we, yeah, the intent here is to talk about coaching sales performance. So the, the intent on this series is when literally where it came from is when Jim and I were talking about what should we do next, right? Like, what should we talk about? What should we do next? One of the things, the first part of my career was in sales and marketing. And so I was a sales executive for a lot of years before I joined Gallup. My first role at Gallup was in business development. And then I, and then I transitioned into learning. And learning had always been a passion and an avocation of mine.

Dean Jones 2:19

But really, like, so part of where I've always been super passionate, and why I got into learning even at Gallup, was my passion around developing salespeople, developing business development people and developing consultants. So as we were thinking about it, we thought, Gosh, wouldn't it be cool to do a few sessions on what it's like to coach sales performance? So how do you, in a strengths-based way, how do you coach sales performance and how do you do that?

Dean Jones 2:46

And part of the challenge, I think, with doing that is always, you have to kind of know a little bit about sales and about, about, and what drives sales performance and kind of the world of sales. You got to kind of get into that world before you get really good at being able to do that. So the first one, we talked a little bit about, first of all, why sales, coach sales performance? And I want to talk about that again today.

Dean Jones 3:08

We also talked a little bit about how sales has changed, right, how business development has changed, and it's how it's really shifted from being a focused on, you know, selling people or trying to convince or influence people to really become helping, helping customers through and clients through the buying process. So it's really, instead of being a selling process, you know, some of the things that now actually feel almost quanit, you know, like, overcoming objections in the sales process, right, you know, or how do you convince people? It's, it, there's still, there's still that notion of influence; influence is still a piece of it. But it's, it's really around supporting people through the buying process, and how do you facilitate that buying process?

Dean Jones 3:54

And then we talked a little bit about different types of sales. And I want to kind of, I want to do a little bit of a rewind today to talk through some of these areas, because I think it'd be useful. I love, Andrea said in the chat, "Good morning from Seattle. Looking forward to the discussion. Thanks, Dean, for addressing this topic." I hope it's useful. I don't, you know, like, I have read a lot about sales. I've worked in sales. And I've, for the last, I would say, gosh, for many, many years, I've coached salespeople, right? So a lot of this is really kind of practical advice around what it's like to kind of work with salespeople, right?

Dean Jones 4:26

So, to just kind of recap, Jim, I thought, I want to go back and just talk a little bit, cover some of the ground we talked last time and hopefully cover it in a way that's coherent. And by the way, if people are listening, I'd love to have questions as we go through this, you know, as we as we go through this. One is -- and one of the reasons I thought this would be useful for coaches is -- because particularly, I think, coming out of the pandemic, people are focused on growth. There's this great I don't know if you saw it on Axios this morning, there's this great article on megatrends. One of the big megatrends is just unleashing this period of growth, global growth. I saw China's GDP is up something like 10% coming out of the pandemic; our GDP, I think, is up something like 3 1/2%.

Dean Jones 5:14

So I think as, as organizations around the world, look at this and say, Hey, we're coming out of the pandemic, there's going to be this huge growth spurt, I think there's going to be a huge focus on sales as an area for organizations to invest in, as an area, as an area where they'll want to get greater effectiveness. So if you're a strengths coach right now, and you're listening this, you may be working inside of an, an organization. We know that 50% of all of our strengths coaches are embedded in organizations. So there may be a focus inside your organization around sales.

Dean Jones 5:48

If you're an independent strengths coach, and you're working with companies, this is an area where we know that performance is easily quantified, right? So it's easy to be able to say, you know, in some areas, it's hard to be able to quantify, hey, are people doing a great job or are they underperforming? In sales, baby, it's just simple, right? It's like, hey, you're either bringing home the bacon or you're not, right?

Dean Jones 6:12

So because it's an area where performance is so easily quantified, it's an, also an area that organizations are more inclined to invest in. So if you're pitching coaching and say, "Hey, I can coach people in your organization, and it's going to increase productivity and performance and profitability," the place where you're most likely to have traction and where your performance, your impact will be quantified is that area of sales, right?

Jim Collison 6:40

Dean, do you think that same thing is true about sales managers?

Dean Jones 6:43

Yeah, 100%.

Jim Collison 6:44

Because we've spent a whole bunch of time kind of focusing on the manager, and we're going to continue to do that through the bulk of the year. That's another pitch, right, is coming in, because the sales manager has such an influence over the sales teams, that would be a great place to start, right?

Dean Jones 6:59

It's one, it's one of those areas, I will tell you, where great management makes -- I mean, there's a lot of areas where great management makes a difference, make no mistake, right? But it's one of those areas where great management just makes a huge amount of difference. Right? I always think that managing -- this is gonna sound like a funny analogy, but -- managing great salespeople is almost like managing thoroughbreds, right, you know, you know. Great salespeople can be a little volatile; they can be a little difficult to manage, like that. But if you know how to manage them right, if you're like a good, you know, sales whisperer, you know, you can get up under salespeople, and it's where great management really makes a huge difference. And so that's where I think, you know, you want, if, if you're investing in sales managers being effective in that way, that's really helpful.

Dean Jones 7:46

The other thing I was gonna say about sales and why coach sales performance is sales effectiveness is rooted in human performance. Right? I know that sounds like a big thought, right. But, you know, sales is all about human relationships. You know, it's all about human relationships; it's all related. The, it's one area, you know, there's a lot of areas in your organization where you invest, and you invest in systems and automation and other, other stuff. Sales is an area where fundamentally it's, it's, it's facilitated by technology; it's facilitated by process. But really, human performance makes a big difference. So if you're, if you're investing in salespeople, and they are able to facilitate conversations, to be able to have more effective interactions with other human beings in other organizations, you know, in clients, it's gonna make a big difference.

Dean Jones 8:38

And so we know that, that when we're in, when we're coaching salespeople, right, there's really two dimensions of it. And I said this last time, and I want to just make sure it's coming through. One is, is, is helping, helping develop those salespeople to have greater self-awareness. So it's strengths based development applied to the salesperson themselves. They develop greater self-awareness; they understand their own talents; they're able to deploy or apply those talents and strengths in ways that enhance their performance. It deepens their relationship with clients; they can navigate those relationships better, and we'll talk about that today. But, but the salesperson is think -- is, sees themselves and has greater self-awareness around their own talents and strengths. So they're utilizing those better. Again, it's one of those areas where you apply human development, you apply development to this individual salesperson, right, and he or she is then able to be more effective, and it has a, has a direct impact then on the bottom line of the organization.

Dean Jones 9:43

The other, the other aspect of it is, and where I think sometimes people get a little over, overwrought in this area, but I think that there there's also understanding clients through this lens of strengths, right. And it somehow, sometimes it gets a little creepy, where it's like, I know strengths and my client doesn't, and therefore, I'm gonna somehow, you know, psycho, you know, like psych them out, right? I'm gonna understand them better than they understand themselves. And, you know, it's like, it's, it's like veers into the, into the domain of trickery.

Jim Collison 10:16

Or I'm gonna, I'm gonna give them a code, a free code, you know, and then take that Top 5 and develop a sales strategy.

Dean Jones 10:24

Yeah, yeah. It's like, somehow, you know, like, it's, you know, let's use our powers for good and not for evil, people. You know what I mean? Like, let's, you know, I think there's, I think that there's a valid uses of strengths when applied to clients. Right? Let me be clear. I think understanding your client's talents and strengths is super useful. But it's useful in, in, first of all, understanding how they think and what's going to be important to them so you can deepen the relationship and serve them better, right? And that's really where applying strengths as a lens to work with clients is super helpful. Because it's like, How can I deepen the relationship? What's going to be important to them? What are they going to care about? Right? How are they going to see this? How are they going to, what kind of decision-making processes? So how can I, in service of them, do -- facilitate all that, right, knowing what I know about them? Right?

Dean Jones 11:15

So I think that's useful. So as we talk about it, I'm mostly thinking about the first bucket, right, which is applying strengths-based development to the salesperson themselves, right. So that they're thinking about, they've got greater self-awareness and their effectiveness has improved.

Dean Jones 11:31

One of the things we talked about is, and I want to, I want to clarify some stuff I said last time. We talked a little bit about the talents and strengths that, regardless of the type of sales that you're in, you know, and last time, we talked about 3 types of sales. But regardless of the type of sales you're in, there are certain things that are sort of in common, that we know, that we, you know, make great salespeople, right. And some of the things we talked about last time, I want to talk about these again. And then I want to give you an example that I didn't talk about last time about how you start to coach people in that area, right?

Dean Jones 12:07

So regardless of what kind of sales you're in, there's 4 or 5 things that we think, we would say, gosh, are pretty important to be successful. One is motivation, right? So regardless about the type of sales, you got to have some kind of drive and intensity. You got to have something driving; motivation is just a key piece. One of the things that with sales is, you know, and regardless of what type of sales you're in, you're pretty much at zero every morning, right? Like when you work in other kinds of roles, you come to the office and stuff's happening, right? When you're in sales, you're at zero every morning, and your job is to make things happen. You're literally creating business from nothing; you're generating from nothing. So you got to have that drive that you want to get up in the morning and go make things happen, right.

Dean Jones 12:58

So my husband -- this is a funny story, horrible story. My husband would kill me that I'm saying this, but my husband so has spent his whole career basically as a retail expert, right. And recently, about a year and a half ago, took a job in sales, right? And at the time he was looking at doing this job I said, he said, "Hey, I'm thinking about doing a business development job; I think it'd be great." I said, Well, I said, "Are you sure? Are you sure it's really a fit for you?" He's like, "Well, I don't know, I think so." He's like. I said, "Well, did you like looking for a job? Do you like that process of looking for a job, like getting up every morning and going and looking for a job?" He's like, "No, I hated that." I'm like, "Well, then you're gonna hate sales." Because it's a lot like looking for a job every day. Right? You know, it's literally, every day you start from zero. So that motivation, that kind of drive really makes a difference.

Dean Jones 13:47

The second thing is competitiveness. You got to -- and I don't mean like the cutthroat anything -- you just have to want to win, right? And, and it's not, and you got to, and it comes from different things, and we'll talk about this in a minute. But you want to have some gauge on how, you want to know How well am I doing? How well am I doing relative to the competition? How well am I doing in terms of meeting their needs? That kind of, you got to have some of that little drive there, right? Doesn't mean you have to have the theme Competition. But it does mean that you've got to, you want to know that, and that's part of that motivation piece.

Dean Jones 14:22

The other aspect that we know that is in there is you got to have high confidence. And it was so funny for me watching the chat last time and then watching the comments in LinkedIn, right, about the session. Because people really picked up on this piece, right? And it, you know, it's, it's that thing, you know, I think I used the word "swagger" last time; you got to have some swagger, right? You know, you know, it sounds weird, but nobody wants a salesperson that, you know, is so introverted and humble that they won't like go tell you all the reasons why you should buy their product. You know, it's just, it's antithetical to the role. You got to --

Jim Collison 15:02

"Oh, I don't know if you really need this or not. It'll be fine."

Dean Jones 15:07

Exactly. Right. So you got to be somebody that, you know, you've got some swagger; you got your ego into the impact you're having and the difference you're making and the things that you're selling, right, the offer that you've got. You got to have your ego in that piece. And it, and to some degree, along with that, you're willing to take some risks, right? You're willing to stick your neck out. And you're also willing to, you like that piece about knowing, like, it's on you to generate business.

Dean Jones 15:34

You know, oftentimes, there's this expression that's used, we use it at Gallup, that, you know, great salespeople are like rainmakers -- they go make it rain, you know. Like, it's, it's -- great salespeople love knowing, Hey, it's on my shoulders, bringing in money to the company is on my shoulders. I'm keeping people employed at the company today, you know? So they like that piece.

Jim Collison 15:54

Dean, that word "swagger," really, it was almost like a watershed. Some people really liked it. Others took, you know, like, Oh, I don't -- and, you know, I think we think of that Western swagger, where it's kind of like, Well, you know, I'm the sheriff in town. As opposed to, you can have relational swagger. I mean, if you've spent, if you have spent hours, years, developing relationships with someone, and you, and you can say, "We should do this." And they go, "OK," because they trust you. Right? That's a form of swagger. Right? That's a form of -- you've spent all that time building trust in those individuals. And so it's, I think some people saw that as a very outwardly facing kind of arrogance. And it comes in all forms, I guess is what I, what I want to tell people. It's, but it's that ability to say, "We should do this." And then people follow. Right?

Dean Jones 16:48

Yeah.

Jim Collison 16:48

Yeah.

Dean Jones 16:48

And I will tell you, I'm going to say something that's kind of hard, maybe, maybe a little controversial, OK. I'm going to lay, lay an opinion on you. OK. Here we go. So I think it's also the way people relate to that is whether you should coach salespeople or not. And I'm gonna say another big thing: It's whether you should coach leaders or not, right? When we talk about swagger and that ego piece, you know, I will tell you, I think all high Achievers have swagger. They've got some self-assurance, some confidence, like that. I don't mean being a jerk, or, or other words to describe that, right. I don't mean being egotistical. I don't mean being a jerk like that. And sometimes there, you know, sometimes there's jerky behavior that great salespeople and great leaders demonstrate, right. But I will tell you, every high achiever has an ego. And you got to fall in love with that ego and have space for that ego if you're going to coach salespeople. You just have to, right?

Dean Jones 17:51

Sometimes you see coaches that are coaching salespeople, and I also see this with coaching leaders, and they're trying to, it's like they're trying to destroy that person's ego or somehow cut through that ego, as opposed to including that ego. And that ego is part of what makes them successful. Right. And if you can't include that ego, if you can't, if you're not willing to account for that and support that, and the, again, the right expression of that, then I just don't think you coach salespeople. And I don't think you coach leaders, because I think high-, high-achievement people are all going to have that. And that's kind of part of the package.

Dean Jones 18:31

And you see great coaches -- and I've seen a lot of great coaches; I'm tempted to name a bunch right now. But, and there's, there's a bunch of, a friend of mine, who's an executive coach, at, you know, at Gallup, friend of mine, who's an executive coach who works in the United States here. And you want, every one of them, kind of like something that ties together all the great, really great executive coaches is they love working with people who have big egos, right. They know that's part of the package. Typically, those coaches actually have pretty big egos themselves, you know what I mean? But that's part of navigating it and including it, right? So if you can't, if you can't wrap your head around that one, it's probably not, this is not where you should go, you should go to work, right? It doesn't mean that there's not other people you could go to work on, but you got to include that I think, right?

Jim Collison 19:21

Yeah. And, Dean, for me, like I was in sales, and I don't, this is not my favorite stuff to do is the close, the, like the high confidence. I mean, I have some of it, but I don't have all of it. And I've shifted my career from being sales in that form to top-of-the-funnel sales with high influence and getting crowds moving and advertising, right, advertising and marketing, which is a form of sales. But it was really, really important for me to understand that shift, and I'm not gonna coach salespeople; I don't, I'm not good at that. Like I am, I am way more good at the high influence of beginning the spin on the top of the funnel? Yeah.

Dean Jones 20:01

Yeah, no, I think that's great. The other thing I want to make sure that people hear -- and we'll talk about this in a minute -- is some of that where that comes from, it may be that where people have their ego, they're putting their ego into things not like, sometimes I think we think of it like, like, like Self-Assurance or Significance. Sometimes, it's putting our ego into our responsiveness for customers, or it's putting our ego into how well we've served them or the impact that their organization is having or the deep relationships that we've built. So sometimes where that swagger gets invested is in those things, right? And you see that there's a lot of swagger. I will tell you, I think at Gallup, a lot of us have our ego into the impact that we have. Right? And that's where, that's where that goes.

Dean Jones 20:51

So, so OK, so I'm talking about the talents and strengths needed across all kinds of sales, right? So motivation, competitiveness, high confidence. The other is is you got to be willing to, that, on some level, you want to influence other people. Right. And I, and it sounds funny to say, but there's some people that are just sort of uncomfortable influencing other people, and you got to be somebody that you get up in the morning and you like the idea of having influence, right. You're a Jim Collison, that's, that gets up in the morning and says, "Hey, I like shaping what people are thinking about; I like shaping people's decisions. I want to be, I want to influence that."

Dean Jones 21:29

The last piece, and this is a piece, you know, I was talking with Kristin Barry, who's our, our, one of our gurus around our selection science, right. And she was talking about one thing she talked about that I thought was so good is one of the capabilities you got to have to succeed is you've got to be -- in sales -- is you've got to be somebody that's good at setting up, organizing and managing your work, right. So beyond all this other stuff, you've also got to be somebody that, and you see this is that you're somebody, as a salesperson, you got a system, and you know how to manage the system around it. You know how to be able to set up your work; you know how to organize your work; you know how to keep it going, so that you're able to be responsive, and you can move things through? Right? So those are the things that we would see across all types of sales, right?

Dean Jones 22:15

The question then becomes, How do I coach people around these things? So how do I, how do I help people, how do I help people think about those things and think about how they do them? I, I thought, rather than, I'm not going to go through each one of those, but I thought I'd take one of them and just tell you how I kind of think about it when I'm coaching salespeople.

Dean Jones 22:34

So like, the first one I said was motivation and, to some degree, competitiveness, right? So I am always looking for, when I'm coaching a salesperson, I'm always looking for, OK, where does their drive come from? So where does that motivation, where does that drive come from? What's going to have them succeed and win? Right? And I'm looking for, and as I'm looking at their themes, and I listen to them talk, and I hear them talk about the way they work, you know, I always call it, Where's their engine? I'm always trying to find their engine. Right. So the engine might be Competition, right? I know, a lot of salespeople that, that are high, high Competition; they've got that theme; they want to win. That's drive, drive, drive, drive drive, right. And that's, that's the big engine that's pushing it for them. Right. And, and that's great. And that's good. And I want to foster that and support them and help them get, get up under them so they have that experience that they're winning every day. Right?

Dean Jones 23:29

It also could be something like Achiever, though. So I know a lot of salespeople that have a high achievement orientation. So they've got a high results orientation. And it's less about winning over others, you know, and it, but it's more about, Am I producing results? Am I, how am I doing? Am I -- got personal bests? And they've got that big achievement drive. For some of them, it's a Significance drive, right? It's that ego orientation. It's like, Hey, am I important? Am I really making an impact? Am I really making a difference? Am I center stage on this thing? That could be the engine that drives this thing.

Dean Jones 24:02

I've also seen salespeople where that whole drive comes from Responsibility, you know, the whole thing. And there's this drive for Responsibility and, and, you know, the follow-through and responsiveness and integrity around that. Keeping our promises to the client. You know, like, Responsibility is the big engine that drives the whole thing. Could be Discipline. It's interesting -- I was on a call with a bunch of our salespeople yesterday, and like 3 people on the call had Discipline in their Top 5, right? And it's that kind of rules orientation, like, This is what I do. And they are like, methodical about it. Right? And Discipline might be one of the big engines. It's like, I never go to sleep unless I do this. Right. I make sure every day I do this, and that Discipline is a big engine that that drives them.

Dean Jones 24:54

Two others that I will, I will tell you. One might be Activator, you know, that momentum Dean Jones, Activator No. 1, right? You know, like I always think, when I ever think of Activators, I always think of sharks in the water -- got to keep swimming to, to breathe. Right, you know, got to have that momentum. Another one, I was thinking this morning about a friend of mine who works here at Gallup. And her whole drive, she's been at Gallup for like 16 years. She's one of our top people. She builds these incredible, deep, phenomenal relationships with clients; like this deep Relator, right? She builds this incredible, these incredible relationships. I always laugh, because, like, literally clients will come visit Gallup, and they'll stay at her house, you know. She's known them for years; she's has deep relation -- she knows everything about them, everything about their organization. She's just got these incredible, deep relationships.

Dean Jones 25:44

So my point is, is, is I think you got to think, you know, as you look at each one of those talents and strengths, to build like around that -- whether it's the confidence thing, it's the desire to influence, the way you manage your work or this thing about motivation and competitiveness -- you got to look and say, "OK, what's the big driver there? What are the strengths I'm using and talents I'm using to be able to do that?"

Dean Jones 26:08

So one of the things I'm always, you know, like, as I coach salespeople, and I spend a lot of time in my life working with salespeople and coaching salespeople is to look and say, "Hey, where, what is that thing that's driving each one of those talents and strengths? What have they got in their themes that's, that's enabling them to be able to do that?" Right. So that's the first piece.

Dean Jones 26:29

Then I think, as you look at, so there's some things we say, Hey, those things are in common for all types of sales, right? Then as we start to look at the different types of sales, and I said last time, this is a, this is like an oversimplification. But I think it's a useful oversimplification. Right. And I think particularly, you know, as you get into it, I think it, particularly, it's useful to understand what are the kind of different types of sales?

Dean Jones 26:55

Last time I gave you 3 types of sales that broadly, I think, I still stand by what I said. I think this is the way to think about What are the types of sales that are out there, as you start to coach people? One is product sales. The second is solution sales. And the third is consultative sales, right. And so I want to talk about each one of those again, and I want to give you kind of a sense of a flavor of how I think about those when I'm coaching people. And part of it is understanding each one of those types of sales, right? So, and it's understanding, well like, what, what is that type of sales? And what makes somebody successful there?

Dean Jones 27:37

So first, I'm gonna talk about the product sales piece, right? This is where, typically in product sales, I'm selling something that's a standardized product or service, right? And it's usually standardized, right? It's not like, it's not highly configured, it's not created uniquely, like that. It's a standard, it's a thing, right, or a specific offering. "We do X," right? You, so I'm selling it, and typically I'm selling it to an individual or a decision-maker, right? Like when we sell classes, seats in our open-enrollment classes, right, it's a standard class, and I'm selling it to somebody who's -- usually the decision-maker is also the person consuming it, right?

Dean Jones 28:17

So that kind of sales, sometimes that, that product sales is also known as transaction sales. Because typically, in that kind of sales, what you're doing is you've got a lot of very quick transactions, right? So this is not a very protracted sales process. It's a lot of very quick transactions. I'm doing a lot of transactions, and a lot of it typically is I'm doing the transaction with the client or the customer, and then I'm moving to the next transaction, right. I'm not spending a lot of time on that; I'm doing enough to kind of get to, to close the transaction; then I'm moving to the next transaction. Sorry, just bumped my mic. But the, like that.

Dean Jones 28:56

So the capability that I've got to have as a salesperson is, one is, I have to be good at matching the product to the person. Right? So fundamentally, if you think about that, and you think about that as a thinking process, right? So we're thinking through when we're looking at those 4 Domains, you think about that as a thinking process. I've got to figure out, Am I good at being able to match the product to the person, right? So I got to be able to know, OK, what is it about this -- I got to know the product really well, right? But I got also know the person well enough that I can say, OK, where are those connection points? So a lot of that is the thinking that I, that I'm doing, right, is to be able to say, "Yeah, here's all the connection points there; got to get good at that matching piece. Right? So with, with this kind of sales, right? And I got to be able to hear quickly, "Yep, it's a fit"; "No, it's not a fit," right? And I also got to know, Hey, is this person likely to buy or not likely to buy? Because I got a lot of transactions to do. So I got to qualify and disqualify that sale pretty fast, right?

Dean Jones 30:02

I had one years ago, it's so funny. I was talking to one of our, one of our salespeople, and I think they were trying to, they had somebody call them and say, and was talking to him about something. And immediately I talked to him immediately after they got off the phone with this customer, and I'm like, Hey, how you doing? And they're like, "I just spent an hour talking to this person, and they just wanted to buy a workbook." Right? You know, and that's typical transaction sales, right? It's like, they're trying to think about, How do I maximize the number of transactions that I've got? Right? How do I maximize those transactions? And how do I identify quickly, Yep, this is a fit or not a fit, right, so I can complete that transaction?

Dean Jones 30:39

The other aspect of product sales is you got to have some persistence. And that's where that motivation piece comes in that we talked about is in transaction sales, because you're doing a lot of transactions, you're also gonna have a lot of "Nos." So you'll have a lot of "Yeses," but they're not all going to be "Yeses." You're going to have easily an equivalent number of "Nos." So you can't, you know, if you're somebody that, you know, like, you're high Woo, or high Harmony, and man, people saying "No" to you just destroys you, you know. It's like, "I got a 'No'; I got to go to bed for the rest of the day." Right? You know, it's like, that, you're, you just aren't gonna last, right? So you got to have that, that, that persistence that you're willing to keep going. So you got to find whatever that thing is that -- and those things we were talking about before, you got to dig into wherever that engine is that keeps you going.

Dean Jones 31:30

And that's where knowing where that engine is is gonna help you as a coach to be able to know, OK, how do I coach that person? Right? It's like, hey, if I'm high Competition, it's like, Hey, Dean, you know, if you want to win, you got to get back in the game, pal, right? Or, if I'm high Achiever, it's like, Hey, Dean, you know, if you don't get back in the game, you're not gonna have a personal best this month, right? Or if I'm high Relator, it's like, Hey, Dean, there's people that, you know, are out there that you, you want to be able to connect with and build those relationships with, right? So whatever it is, you got to know where the engine is that's keeping people moving forward.

Dean Jones 32:11

The other aspect of product sales that I think is important, right, is, is that with product sales, you've got to be able to build a relationship quickly and move into the conversation about the match, right? So you got to be able to be somebody that can build rapport quickly. Right? So we always think of the talent Woo around that, right? Hey, I'm like, I can break the ice. And certainly, there's those Woo dogs that, you know, like they just get, they can build that relationship. But there's lots of talents that I can use to build those relationships, make that quick connection, that quick rapport, and then be talking about, talking about their needs, and how, what the fit is, right.

Dean Jones 32:50

And so sometimes it's my, leaning into my, my Thinking themes, my expertise, right? Sometimes it's leaning into my Execution themes, right? My sense of Responsibility or my Arranger, right? So being able to do that. So it's that piece about being able to build that quick rapport, being able to make that connection, and then get right into that conversation about matching those needs to, to whatever the product is, right. So that's kind of the world of product sales. I feel like you want to say, do you want to say something -- ?

Jim Collison 33:18

Yeah, I was gonna say, What do you think the role of confidence then plays? I always find, when I'm out on the road recruiting, which is a form of sales, right, the longer the day goes on, the better I get, and, right, and then I start getting confident. And then that confidence, I think, sometimes for me plays out in influencing who I'm talking to. So in the morning, when I kind of don't know what I'm doing, maybe like you, you know, kind of just talking, stammering around, right? But by the afternoon, I've got my mojo and that confidence kicks in. Is that, is that kind of, does that -- do those two play together?

Dean Jones 33:52

Aren't you high in Woo?

Jim Collison 33:53

Ah, very high, yeah, it's [No.] 2.

Dean Jones 33:54

Yeah, OK.

Jim Collison 33:54

Should have been [No.] 1.

Dean Jones 33:56

Part, yeah, I mean, part of it is, is knowing you -- here I am coaching you!

Jim Collison 33:59

Yeah, yeah, right on, right on!

Dean Jones 34:00

This is, this is what -- our coaches always live live, love live coaching. So here we go, we're gonna cut. Of course it is. Because, as somebody who's high Woo, you know, I always think about it, like people that have, that -- this is gonna sound like a weird example, but -- people that have like diabetes or have trouble. You know, like, you've gone all night with not talking to anybody, right? So you go during your day, and the more you talk to people, it's filling your tank, dude. You know what I mean? All that's filling up that Woo. Right? So you know, the, the, for you, it's -- your swagger is the, is in the, is part, is part of that Woo, right, is your connection with people, and like that. So we got to fill that tank, right?

Dean Jones 34:37

So, and so it's not going to be the same with everybody else. Right? So that's where we got to figure out, Hey, again, what is that thing that, where do you get your swagger from? Sometimes people get their swagger from, you know, if they're, if they're heavy Thinking themes, they get their swagger from knowing, right? Do you know a lot about this? Are you an expert around, around this, right? Have you learned something around this?

Dean Jones 35:04

You know, it's kind of like, I love people like that because you teach them something new and that gives them gas in their tank, right? It's like, I got a whole new reason to go out and talk to clients now, because I just learned something new. Right? And so I'm gonna go out and, I learned it, and now I want to go share it with everybody. Right? So, so comes from a different place. So there's, that's product sales.

Dean Jones 35:24

I want to talk about the solution sales piece, right? So, and this is where I'm, and it sounds funny, but like we even teach our consultants this, right, our business development consultants this, but a solution is really when you take a set of products, and you put them together to solve a problem or address a need. It sounds like the simplest thing in the world. But in practice, it's like people that are great at solution sales, it's not just about you -- one person, one product, right? It's about understanding the need and configuring the products together. Right?

Dean Jones 35:58

It's kind of like when you walk into Best Buy, and you say, "Hey, I need a new whole new computer system." And they go, "OK, well, tell me what you're doing." Right. And it's like, you need this monitor and this computer and this keyboard and this mouse and this cool gaming chair and this -- . You know, like, and if it's podcasting, or if it's gaming, or if it's, you know, like doing video or whatever it is, right, they're putting the pieces together and configuring them in a right way to be able to address the need or solve the problem that the client's got, right. And we gauge that, we gauge the success of that as not just, you can tell there's a few things going on. One is, Have I really heard what the client is saying? Do I really have, do I know what the need is? Do I know what's driving the need?

Dean Jones 36:47

So one piece with solution sales is building a deep enough relationship. It's not -- you know, sometimes in product sales, somebody walks in and says, "Hey, I want a blue car." And the salesperson says, "Great. Here's a blue car," right? Boom! Match made, right? In solution sales, It's like, "Hey, I'm trying to optimize this," or "I got this deep need," or "I got this problem here." I got to listen to not only what the problem is; I got to listen to what's driving that problem. Right. And I might have to be uncovering something that's, that's underneath it.

Dean Jones 37:21

So you think about that on a talent or strengths level -- I got to build enough trust and relationship that the person is going to tell me what's happening, right. So if I'm not, if that person doesn't trust me, or if I don't have the relationship, they're not going to be forthcoming. And I'm not going to find out what it is. I've also got to have the Thinking themes that I can dig into what that is, right? And the more sophisticated the solution sales, the more complexity or more expertise I need to have around that. Right.

Dean Jones 37:50

The other piece is, I've got to, as a salesperson, I got to get good at configuring. And that's a Thinking process, right? I've got to understand how the components work together. Right? It's, you know, there's nothing more frustrating than you go buy a solution and you figure out, Hey, the components don't work together. Oops, right? Hey, that software doesn't work with that computer, right? Or, Hey, it doesn't, that software doesn't support these components, right? Oops, that doesn't work. Right. So I got to, I got to be able to think through what it is. And the quality of the solution is kind of like, I always describe it as that kind of Gestalt thing, right, where the whole is bigger than the sum of the parts. You put all the parts together, great, you got all the parts together. But the impact of having all those right components together, you know, the impact of that is so powerful, right? So that you've got to have the thinking to be able to do that, right?

Dean Jones 38:44

And then in solution sales, really, it's, what's, what it starts to get as you get into solution sales is it requires a level of trust because it's typically, you're, you're not selling just one thing; it's, you're selling all the components, and it's typically more expensive, right? I'm gonna buy more, and it's more expensive; I need to have that greater degree of trust. I might also with, depending on the kind of solution, I probably now will have to deal with multiple buyers.

Dean Jones 39:15

And so in product sales, a lot of times, it's not multiple buyers, right. And in fact, a lot of times, in product sales, the buyer is also the consumer. Right? So I'm thinking about doing a course; I'm buying the course. But I'm also doing -- it's a course for myself, right? In solution sales, a lot of times, the buyer is different than the consumer. Right. So I got to think about, How do I build consensus with multiple buyers, you know, to make sure it's right for the consumers. I got to think dimensionally a little bit about that in some level.

Dean Jones 39:49

The other aspect of this that requires some Thinking and some Execution is I probably, I may have to do some handoff. So there may be some sort of project management associated with implementing the solution, right? So it's kind of like, Hey, when I walk into -- I'm giving you simple, common examples, but -- I walk into Home Depot and say, Hey, I want to buy, I don't know, a new kitchen sink and countertop, right, for my bathroom. Right? There's the, what are the pieces, but there's also the installation, right? And making sure that what do we do with the existing stuff? And I got some project management and execution around this, right. So as I -- I'll make my point and then I'll come to you here -- is the, the, the level of relationship's a little deeper; the level of thinking is a little deeper; the kind of influence I need, relative to relationships, is a little different. And there's some different kind of execution that's going to work there. Go ahead.

Jim Collison 40:46

So Dean, as you think about a sales manager, or a sales coach coaching a salesperson, knowing that this solution sales, and we're going to talk about consultative sales here in a second, but product sales and solution sales may take different talents in doing this. How important is it for, to, to stack up these ideas, to say, "No, I'm more, I'm better at high transaction," versus "I'm better at high, higher complexity?" And what kind of conversations go on there? And maybe that's good to save till the end of consultative as we think about the 3 together. But how important is that?

Dean Jones 41:23

I think it's good. The thing, the trap you don't want to get into is, is that some talents and strengths are only used in product sales, and some talents and strengths are only used in solution sales or so, and, and down the line. Right? So that's not the, that's not where you want to go. Right? Where you want to go is to be able to think about How are you using those talents and strengths? How are you using those talents and strengths in a, in that way? Right.

Dean Jones 41:53

And, again, you know, there may be people that what you start to see is as they utilize their talents and strengths, they get drawn to a particular kind of, of sales, right? There's somebody that used to work here at Gallup that she was just, she was probably the best transactional salesperson that I'd ever met. She was just phenomenal, she, unbelievable. But, but she, it wasn't, it wasn't where her, it wasn't where her aspirations lie. Right? So she wasn't, you know. And so, at the end of the day, I think sometimes people have to kind of go where their aspirations lead them. Right, but -- and what feels right and what feels good for them. But you know, and we do know, there are certain talents, underlying talents, not strengths, but underlying talents that are a fit for certain roles. Right. But as you're coaching salespeople, it's really about helping them to be able to understand, What are my own talents and strengths? And how am I applying them meaningfully in each one of those areas? Does that make sense?

Jim Collison 42:54

Yeah, yeah, no, that's, that's a perfect explanation of it.

Dean Jones 42:56

I don't, I don't mean to dance around it. We do know that you can do talent assessments to say, Hey, I'm a better fit with this kind of sales, right? But in this domain, it's the developmental domain, right? Not the, not the selection domain. In the developmental domain, it's more about how, how am I using my talents and strengths? Right?

Dean Jones 43:16

The pitfall I think we sometimes get into is, is, there tends to be a stereotype of what a great product salesperson looks like, or what a great solution salesperson looks like. Or -- you see this a lot with sales managers -- is they, they've got that "glare effect" where they're a particular way or their best salesperson is a particular way. Therefore, they think everybody should be that way. Right? And, you know, I mean, even if you just look, even if you just look across Gallup and all of our business development folks, right, we, we, there are just all different kinds of business development folks that have all different kinds of talents and leverage them. And so the game is figuring out what my talents are, and then understanding the sales world that I'm in, right. Am I in a product sales world? Am I in a solution sales world? Am I in a consultative sales world? Right?

Jim Collison 44:11

Yeah. And kind of, kind of a danger in the guru mentality, which is, I was a successful salesperson. Now I'm going to be a sales manager. Now everyone needs to do my, my method of sales, because it was my method that worked, as opposed to those unique talents that brought me there. I might have a different set of tools that we have to figure out how to use, right, to get it done.

Dean Jones 44:34

That's right. That's right. Let me do this. I'm just thinking about where we're going to stop today. Right. So let me talk a little bit about consultative sales. I want to talk about that just briefly, OK? And then talk about how you coach, how you coach people around their strengths around this, right. So, because I think that's super useful, right? So the consultative sales world, you know, so you can look at it, so there's the product sales world, where it's kind of like I'm, you know, one person, one product and we're doing the matching, right? There's that solution sales world where I'm configuring solutions.

Dean Jones 45:06

Consultative is really either, even further upstream, where, and a lot of consultative sales is figuring out, How am I helping the client just define what the problem is, right? How am I, it, it sometimes is even, you know, the client may say, "Hey, we're working on this, or we want to optimize this, or we want to maximize this." It may be like, part of my job is just functioning as an adviser to that person, saying, "Here's the problem, or here's the thing you need to be looking at now, right, to, in your journey toward growth or expansion or success or impact, here's the, here's the thing." And a lot of what I'm doing is helping the client define what the problem is, determine what the solution should include, and then -- before I even get to the point of, What are the component parts of the solution, that kind of piece, right?

Dean Jones 45:57

So it's very far upstream, right? And a lot of times, consultative sales is, you know, the solution itself, or the program that we sell, or the service that we offer is highly bespoke, right? It's highly customized. So it's designed specifically for that specific customer, right? You see very high-end consulting is this way, where it's, you know, it's not like, We do this, and we do that; it's, because anything that you do that standardized wouldn't necessarily have the level of customization that's required at, you know, for that to have the impact that's desired. So, it's really, one is, it's that deep relationship. So it's, it's in that world; it's being that kind of trusted adviser. And you've built that incredibly deep relationship, where the client is willing to really lean into your expertise, whether it's industry expertise or expertise about that specific organization or that specific function, you know, that, but they're really going to lean into your expertise. So there's that deep level of trust, right.

Dean Jones 47:09

And I, it, it that trust also typically requires some level of confidentiality, right. So I trust you enough that I'm willing to tell you where all the bodies are buried, right. I'm gonna give you all the dirty laundry, right. And I trust you enough that I can trust you with all that kind of stuff, understanding that you understand the context and also the consequences if there was some betrayal of trust in that way, right.

Dean Jones 47:33

The other piece is, is that you have to have that, that, that thinking, that deep level of expertise that you're somebody that is a good thought partner. So if I have to teach you about my company or teach you about the industry or teach you about this function, it's hard for me because I need, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna then turn around and, and, and trust you, really, as a consultant to be able to say, "Hey, this is what I recommend." So typically, what we're expecting is some expertise or some background around that that you can do that, right.

Dean Jones 48:09

The other thing in consultative sales is, is that we expect that you're able to innovate or create the solution and the program. So you've got that ability to listen, uncover those deep needs, build that trust relationship, but you can then translate that into a highly bespoke solution, right? So you're able to, you're able to be able to do that. And typically, because this kind of, of, of sales tends to be more complex -- this is much more complex than just a solution sale, this is much more complex -- that it requires some kind of management or orchestration kind of talent, right? So I have to be able to, to envision and create that kind of solution. But it also has to be something that we can execute, right, and that I can actually lead or pull in the team and orchestrate the team to be able to do that. So I've got to be able to do that kind of thing. Right?

Dean Jones 49:06

So, so it's, and so typically, this kind of sales is much more complex. It requires significant talent to do this, right. And so you really have to think about its deeper Relationship, deeper Influencing, deeper ability to think, to think and to really think at a different level. And again, that that you don't have to necessarily be an Execution guru, but you got to be able to think through the execution so it's doable, right.

Dean Jones 49:35

So the piece I wanted to end with today, right, is I want to talk about, and then we'll, we'll keep going this for, for, for Part 3, OK. But as a coach, then, knowing those different types of sales, how do I coach people, right? Well, one is to make sure it's, it's not like -- and I said this before -- it's not like I'm going to look at somebody's themes and say, "Boom! You should be in product sales." Or "Boom! You should be in consultative sales." That's, that's not it, right? It's really looking and saying, OK, given, given your themes, and given the kind of sales that you're in, how do I coach you to be successful, right? Given what I know about that type of sales, and given what I know about your themes, how do I help you to be able to do that?

Dean Jones 50:22

I think it starts, for me, always at the Domain level. So I like to think about it, I start like to start thinking about it at the Domain level. So knowing that person and knowing this kind of sales, right, how am I going to help them think about their themes in a way that's useful for creating Relationships? How am I going to think about, how am I going to help them with their Thinking themes, with the kind of thinking they're going to need to do in this type of sales? Right? So how are they going to do that piece? How am I going to, how am I going to help them with the kind of Influencing they're going to need to do in this, right? And how am I going to help them with the kind of Execution that's going to be required?

Dean Jones 51:01

So I'm thinking at that kind of macro level, that Domain level, right? So, and I always like to, the way I'm doing it is I'm looking at those themes, right? I'm looking at, I'm looking at their themes and saying, OK, how are they going to do each one of those things? So let me give you an example of this, OK? So let's, let's take the Relationship piece. Let's take the Relationship piece here, right? So if I'm, if I'm looking at the, at the, that, that person's talent, and at that kind of sales, I'm looking at that person and saying, How is that person going to build relationships in this type of sales? Right? What themes are they going to use to be able to do that, right?

Dean Jones 51:41

Now a place I'll start is their Relationship themes? Do they have any Relationship themes? What are the, if so, what are those Relationship themes? And they could be lots of different, you know, it could be like, I'm using my Adaptability. So I'm, I notice that they use their Adaptability; that they're flexible and they can pivot easily with customers. I could use their Includer, right, you know, that the drive for them is making sure everybody's included, expanding the circle of people that they know, and that know and use the product within their industry or their organization, right. So that Includer is kind of driving them and they're using that to build relationships, right?

Dean Jones 51:50

Could be their Connectedness. I know a lot of salespeople who have high Connectedness, right? They're able to effortlessly connect and network within a company or within a community, like an association or a geographic community, or within an industry, right? So, you know, like, I start to think about, again, I'm thinking about how are they doing each one of those 4 things: Relationships, Thinking, Influencing and Execution; in this case, I'm giving you an example of Relationships, right? So I'm starting and looking at those Relationship themes that might, might be the things that they can use to build relationships.

Dean Jones 52:22

It also could be themes from other Domains that they're using to build relationships, right. So we know that, you know that, like the old joke, it's like, Hey, I don't have any Relationship themes. Does that mean I don't have any, I can't relate to other human beings, right? No. It's like, I can use a bunch of different themes. Right. So one of the, so the themes I could use to build relationships might be my Learner and my Input, right? So I love, and I know a lot of great salespeople who lead with a lot of Learner and Input. They are able to get up to speed effortlessly on a company or on a customer or on an industry and position themselves as an expert. I kind of gave you an example that earlier, right?

Dean Jones 53:37

Could be my Communication, or my Self-Assurance I use to build relationships, right? So I, a lot of great salespeople lead with a lot of Communication, but they build relationships because they can articulate needs so well. So I can listen to you talk, and then I can articulate your needs. And man, that creates a lot of trust, because I feel like you got it. Right? You got it, you could talk about it. And so I'm using that Communication talent, that Influencing talent of Communication, right, to be able to build relationships. I'm -- might be Self-Assurance, right? Is your, I borrow confidence; you've got so much Self-Assurance as a salesperson about, about the, the solution and the impact of the solution that I as a buyer am borrowing your confidence about that, right?

Dean Jones 54:28

Could be some Execution themes that I'm using to build relationships, like my Arranger -- my ability to think through different ways of configuring the solution. "Oh, that doesn't work," or, or, "Oh, that's too expensive. Let's configure it a different way so that I can maximize the impact or maximize the value," right? Could be Responsibility. I know, it's crazy, but I know a lot of great salespeople that the big, the big driver for their relationships are just that they have such high Responsibility -- that they're so responsive to client needs and, you know, their their service orientation is just huge, right?

Dean Jones 55:01

So let me, let me make sure I'm clear about what I'm communicating here, because I'm not sure I've landed it exactly. But, so as I start to coach the salesperson, I'm thinking about who they are. And I'm thinking at, like, how do they do each of those 4 things in their domain: create Relationship, Think Strategically, Influence others and Execute, right? And I'm thinking about it against the background of the type of sales that they're in. Right? So I'm listening to them. I'm listening to their talents and strengths, thinking about that, and looking at, OK, given the themes that they've got, how are they going to create relationships? What's the Thinking that's required? And how are they going to deliver that thinking? What's the Influencing that's required here? And how are they going to, what themes are they going to do to do that? What's the execution that's going to be required in this type of sales? And how are they going to do that, right?

Dean Jones 55:53

And the example I just gave you was the Relationship one, right? I'm looking to say, What Relationship themes are there? How would they use those? What are the other themes they use to build relationships, right? Now, I only know that by listening to them, right? So I'm listening to them; I'm listening to their talents and strengths. And I'm thinking about the way they use their talents and strengths, and looking at how that matches this type of sales, what the clients are going to need, and then helping them to be able to lean into those talents to really build legitimate strengths there, OK. So I'll stop there. Jim.

Jim Collison 56:29

Yeah, Dean, so would I repeat that process, then, for the other, for each one of those other Domains? So I'm, I'm kind of going through that and thinking, How am I, how am I Executing? Dan Donovan was kind of asking about that question. I would say, OK, because this is, to be honest, this is an area where I struggle is on the Execution side. So I think like, OK, what do how do I put, how do I line up what I currently have to help me in that Execution; in my case, actually get other people as well to partner with me who are really good at that, to kind of help in that process? But is that what you're -- ?

Dean Jones 57:01

Exactly, and, and it's, it's, the thing you want to be aware of, you know, like, if I'm coaching you, Jim, right, and, as a salesperson, right, and I'm listening to how's it going, right? And I'm listening for what's working, and I'm, I'm, I'm, where I'm going to start to intervene is in those areas where it feels like things aren't working, right. It's, if you're able to effortlessly create relationships and you build trust, and that, you know, like that, that's great. And then, you know, you're able to, you're able to do that, that's great. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna worry about like, leaning into that Domain. If the Execution Domain is, is that, that's where we're going to go to work, right? So we're going to go to work on How do we think about your talents and strengths?

Dean Jones 57:47

So I always think about where's the demand from their work and from their clients? What are the, you know, it's what our, our experts, like Kristin Barry called "job demands." Right? What's the demands of the job? Where's the demands of the work? What's the demand from the client? Right? And where are they either not aware of those demands or not disposed to meet them, right? And figuring out where, how do we use our talents and strengths to be able to do that? And your awareness of the type of sales and what's needed there, that helps you get a sense of what those job demands are going to be, so that you're better equipped to be able to say, Hey, what talents or strengths could you be using there to be able to do that? And I just use that, I will tell you, you know, like, I'm a guy who loves a system, right? So I think, I think it's a good, methodical way of thinking about it, to think in those 4 Domains, right? To be able to think about each one of those 4 Domains, I think that helps there, as I'm thinking about it, because it gives me a place to be able to anchor myself. OK?

Jim Collison 58:46

We got a great example of that and then we'll kind of wrap it. But 8 years ago, 7, 8 years ago, you and I were having a conversation about Called to Coach. It was the early days of Called to Coach, and you were talking me through this kind of thing. And you said, "Jim, I want to see 90 days on a spreadsheet. Like, I want you to start planning out. And I want you to have Called to Coach 90 days, you know, we -- lock them in. This is the process." You know, you said you love a process. And I've kind of discovered, I need those processes. Like, that's what helps me execute is when I've created a process for my own, for myself, and you kind of taught me that.

Jim Collison 59:20

And so it was great. Like I put a spreadsheet together that, by the way, I still work off of! Like, it's, it's got years, it's got the tabs, and it's got years. And we've copied stuff over and it's messy back then; it's messy today. But it gets it done. I now have a whole, I mean, I have all of 2021 planned out. The third and fourth quarters aren't as filled in as -- but all second quarter is, and that's 90 days, right? And so it's, it's beautiful to see. It's fun and beautiful for me to hear you say this and go back 7 years and go, yeah, that was --

Dean Jones 59:56

Oh wait! He did that with me! Yeah. I think, and I think, you know, it sounds funny, but it's, it is that thinking process as a coach, right? So as you're in the process of coaching somebody, right, you're thinking through, and particularly a salesperson, right, you're thinking through, you got to go through in your head and be able to say, you got to listen to what that is. But you need some kind of framework, or some kind of lens to be able to look at it through. Right. And I think that helps, as you start to know, OK, where do I want to go to work, right?

Jim Collison 1:00:27

Well, it was great. You knew, as you put that out as a challenge for me, that I would, I would bite on -- that Maximizer would bite on it and be like, "OK, game on! Let's do this thing!" So, Dean, as we look ahead for next time, what do you think we're doing?

Dean Jones 1:00:40

Yeah. So a couple places, right? One is, I'd love to, we promised this the beginning; I'm sorry, I thought I'd go, get a little faster, go a little faster here, but we want to talk about the sales process itself. So the other kind of dimension, you got the talent of the salesperson and that, that uniquely; you got the different types of sales; but there's also the sales process, right. And, excuse me, and that's another piece that we want to kind of talk about: the stages to the sales process.

Dean Jones 1:01:05

So I want to give you the, I think about this in a very kind of simplified way. So I want to kind of talk you through that piece. And then think about like, How do you coach people around that? So I want to talk through that sales process piece. I want to start to dig in -- we touched on it today, but -- that piece about Do you need sales experience to be able to coach people? I know that was a question that came up around that. So want to be able to talk about that. I also thought it'd be fun if -- and I hope, I think we'll have enough time -- I thought it'd be fun if people after, after we've gone through all this stuff is people brought their questions next time. So it'd be kind of cool if we did a little bit of a Q&A next time to be able to talk about kind of what questions do people have and are in this area, and we'll take a shot at people's questions. Right? So -- how does that sound good? Sounds good?

Jim Collison 1:01:50

Yeah, no, it sounds great. Yeah, I love, I kind of love the dynamic way we build these. We have some ideas of where we're gonna go. But then the process happens, and it's OK. I think it's just kind of great. This is so much fun for me. So with that, we'll remind everyone to take full advantage of all the resources we have now in Gallup Access. Just head out to gallup.com/cliftonstrengths and they're available for you there. If you need coaching, master coaching or want to become a Gallup-Certified Strengths Coach -- you're listening to this and you're like, "Man, I want to join the team!" Yeah, send us an email: coaching@gallup.com; we'll get you all set up on that as well. And if you want to follow us on Eventbrite: gallup.eventbrite.com for all future events. Speaking of Influence, the 2021 Gallup at Work Summit is coming up, and we'd love to have you as a part of that; the sales are rocking. In fact, we just did a session today -- we just announced, if you register by May 15, you get a, you're gonna get a swag bag sent to you, no matter where you're at in the globe. And it's gonna include the new wellbeing book. So you might want to get in on that by May 15: gallupatwork -- there it is -- gallupatwork.com, and we'd love to see at the summit. Some really cool technology coming from a networking perspective, Dean, so we're, Abbie was super excited to announce that. Find us anywhere on social by searching "CliftonStrengths." Thanks for joining us today. We'll be back next month with Part 3. We'll look forward to seeing you there. With that, we'll say, Goodbye, everybody.

Dean Jones' Top 5 CliftonStrengths are Activator, Focus, Woo, Strategic and Relator.