Navigating Life Crises via Care Coaching and Strengths

Dawn F. Landry, CEO and Founder of Authentizity and a Gallup-Certified Strengths Coach, was our guest on a recent Called to Coach. Dawn and her husband have experienced two significant life crises -- involving cancer and a stroke -- over the past decade-plus, and their CliftonStrengths have been a key factor in helping them navigate these crises. Dawn shared the coaching and strengths strategies she has employed to motivate her husband in his recovery process, and how her own strengths have come to her aid in meeting the accompanying challenges.

Gallup Called to Coach Webcast Series -- Season 9, Episode 9

[Care coaching is] helping, leveraging the strengths that your loved one has to really kind of rally them, to remind them of who they are. So then that way, they can get to the other side of it.

Dawn Landry, 14:59

Pain is pain. ... My pain doesn't have to be worse or better than your pain does. Pain is pain at the end of the day, and we just have to be there for each other however we can be.

Dawn Landry, 39:36

When you're looking at just a blank hospital wall, ... you need some inspiration, right? ... And so I printed out all his Top 5 strengths [and put them on the wall]. ... Then ... speaking to his Context, ... I documented the milestones of the day.

Dawn Landry, 28:45

Jim Collison 0:00

I am Jim Collison, and live from our virtual studios around the world -- or at least today in the United States; we have a virtual audience around the world -- this is Gallup's Called to Coach, recorded on March 5, 2021.

Jim Collison 0:22

Called to Coach is a resource for those who want to help others discover and use their strengths. We have Gallup experts and independent strengths coaches share tactics, insights and strategies to help coaches maximize the talent of individuals, teams and organizations around the world. If you are listening live, love to have you join us in our chat room. There's actually a link right above me there on our live page. That will take you to our YouTube page, and there's a chat room there. Just sign in with your Google account. We'd love to have you in there with your questions. If you have questions after the fact -- maybe you're listening to this as a podcast and it's not today, and you're not live. We'd love to have that question as well. Send us an email: coaching@gallup.com. Don't forget to subscribe on your favorite podcast app if you want to do it that way. Or you can subscribe to us on YouTube, get notified every time is something new. Dawn Landry is our guest today. She's the CEO and Founder of Authentizity. And she's the author of Armored -- we'll talk about that a little bit later -- a memoir of inspirational and practical life strategies. And I think everybody could use a little bit of inspiration and practical life strategies at this point. Dawn's Top 5 is Input, Competition, Significance, Ideation and Individualization. Dawn, welcome to Called to Coach and we're glad that you're here today!

Dawn Landry 1:32

Thank you, Jim. I'm really excited to be here.

Jim Collison 1:35

We are excited to have you, and I think, let's just get started with a little bit about you. Tell us a little bit about your background, who you are, what you're doing, maybe a little bit of experience that you've had in the past.

Dawn Landry 1:45

Absolutely. So I'm from South Louisiana, so born and raised, but I've been in Houston for 20 years now. And so my background is in public relations. That's how I was trained in school. And if, as I reflected back in terms of my career, I can go back to the very first class that I had in PR 101. And my adviser asked, "Are you a king or are you a kingmaker?" And so, and that was in 1991 -- that long ago. And so, and as I look back on it now, my whole career has not been about being king, even though I do have Significance as No. 3; I have been about being a kingmaker.

Dawn Landry 2:26

So whether it's in a PR kind of role, or I did business development with technical teams primarily like in the commercial construction industry, so with, within the United States with a national general contractor, as well as with an international contractor based out of London for a time. And then started my business, Authentizity, 4 years ago, and really have become, like really honed that kingmaker aspect of things as I have leveraged Gallup CliftonStrengths and being a coach to allow the technical folks that I work with to discover their strengths overall. So that's kind of how I sum it up is that king, kingmaker kind of mentality that I have, that kind of follows me even in the personal life that I have.

Jim Collison 3:08

I like it. I like that -- I may steal that from you: Are you a king or a kingmaker? That's a good, that's a really good question. As a Gallup-Certified Coach, and it's, we've been saying lately -- or I've been saying lately -- this is Top 5 Friday. So as you think about your Top 5 and you think about your coaching, what are you, what are you leaning into of those themes in your Top 5? What do you lean into hardest or most in your coaching practice, do you think?

Dawn Landry 3:31

Most, in the last 4 years, have been Individualization and Input. And so nothing is boilerplate for me, which is fantastic. But it's also very, it can drive you crazy, right? Because I try not to, I try not to boilerplate anything. So everything wants to be customized. And so, and then the Input, of course, I've been very, very blessed in that I have just had this tremendous success, even right out the chute, in starting my company. And so and that's all from leveraging the relationships and the connections that I have, not only in Houston, but really kind of nationwide as well.

Jim Collison 4:05

You kind of admitted to me in the preshow you have low Harmony, low Empathy. I think some folks feel like that's necessary for coaching. Like, how do you, how do you overcome that as a coach? How do you kind of -- well, first of all, I don't think it's necessary. Like let's just be really, really clear. There's no themes that are that way. But in that setting, what, how would you characterize your coaching style?

Dawn Landry 4:29

So it is something that I have to -- so I have Competition as No. 2. So when you are a coach and you have so many strong Influencing -- and then Command is No. 6 for me. So you have so many strong Influencing strengths, it's having that self-awareness that you have to throttle back and not always is it, is it a coaching assignment, is it a consulting assignment? If it's a true coaching assignment, then I have to allow the person that I'm coaching to be able to get to their thoughts actually, and not always impose my own, you know, experience, opinions, whatever it is, that kind of goes along with it. The coaching that, you know, the way that I do that, not having the Empathy and the Harmony, is really to lean on my Ideation, which is No. 4.

Jim Collison 5:19

OK. Yeah, let's, I mean, it's a beautiful way to kind of look at that, right, and to think through. I have Ideation, you know, in my Top 5, and I do spend a lot of time helping people. In fact, I had a partner at Gallup, and she used to say to me, "Give me 3 ideas. Here's -- I have this problem. I need 3 ideas." Like, like you, me, given the chance to ideate for a while, you could probably ideate for most of the afternoon, right?

Dawn Landry 5:45

Oh, yeah.

Jim Collison 5:47

That was, that was our, that was our agreement, is she would just say, "Give me 3," so that I would stop. Right. So it's a great, one of those great team, you know, team things that we would come up with that we'd approach that. You have a team; his, your husband, his name is Darren, right. And, and let's talk -- he, he's, he's pivotal to the conversation we're gonna have today. So not often does the spouse get, you know, brought in and Top 5. But, but this is kind of important. So let's talk about how long you've been married. Talk a little bit about Darren, how'd you guys meet? Some of those kinds of things. And then, I think your, your two Top 5s are instrumental to this. So maybe bring him, his Top 5 in as well.

Dawn Landry 6:27

Sure. So we have been friends -- in January, it was 25 years that we became friends. And so we worked in a business environment in Lafayette, Louisiana together. He can tell you what I was wearing at this business function that we went to that year. I don't remember meeting him for another 6 months. And so it was just kind of funny how I was in another relationship and my blinders were on. So then we, we were friends for 3 years; we've been -- we dated for 22 years -- oh wait, sorry, we dated for 5 years; it's been 22 years -- and then we've been married for 17 years.

Dawn Landry 7:00

And so a long history, very steeped in terms of a foundation of friendship and just really good communication. And we've been through a lot of challenges, you know, emotional challenges in terms of, before even we were married, in terms of, you know, losing loved ones that we had; financial challenges, in terms of, you know, it being the early 2000s. And so the dot-com crisis and lots of other, you know, financial related, you know, career-related challenges in our early 30s.

Dawn Landry 7:30

And then most importantly, health-related challenges. And so here's this amazingly healthy guy who works out a lot and doesn't drink, doesn't smoke, hasn't his entire life; eats skinless, boneless chicken breast, you know, every day; works out, sometimes twice a day. And unfortunately, genetics-wise, he just has had some major health challenges, even before -- he had one issue like that brought him to the ICU before we were even married. And then he had cancer when we were 38 years old. And then in 2019, when we were 48, he had, he suffered a stroke.

Dawn Landry 8:08

And so lots of those challenges overall, but knowing our strengths -- and so he also has Significance, which is his No. 3. And it, when we found that out, it was very interesting, because I thought, Well, how do our Significances not kind of butt up against each other? But the reality is, we appreciate one another for the fact that we both see it, we both use that strength in different ways. But we can celebrate one another in a different kind of way that other people can't because we share Significance.

Jim Collison 8:43

Yeah. Any other, as you think about that discovery, let's, let's kind of go back. Did you do it at the same time? Was it something you did before him? How did that work?

Dawn Landry 8:53

I did mine before, before he did. And actually he was actually surprised at Competition. When I took it the first time, Competition was No. 1. And then it came, when I did it again 5 years later, I had a lot of life changes that happened, career changes that happened. So I took it 5 years later, and Competition showed up as No. 2. So I was like, OK, I really have to own my Competition. But the reality is, it's not a Competition against me against you most of the time. It's a Competition of myself. It's a process improvement. I want to be better today than I was yesterday, last month, last week, last year, basically. And so that's how Competition shows up in me.

Dawn Landry 9:29

But then when he took it a couple years later, and I looked at it, I was like, Oh, yeah, this makes perfect sense. And so he has Focus and Context as No. 1 and No. 2. And so, I mean, you ask him, you ask him what time it is; he'll tell you how to make the watch. And so, and we'll go on forever about it, I mean, I'm on to another subject. I'm like on my, if we, if we're on the phone, I'm on my computer, like answering 5 emails, and he's still going, pontificating on whatever I've asked him about.

Dawn Landry 9:58

And then Activator, Achiever are [No.] 4 and 5. And so when we figured that out, he actually started to use it against me. And so in that, you know, we as wives sometimes have to-do lists for our husbands. And so whenever I'd say, "Well, you, you know, I gave you this list; when are you going to get to it?" And he's like, "Well, I have Activator-Achiever. I don't want to start it unless I can finish it. It's like, How is that possible? And I get -- getting back to get Activator in him; I gave it a nickname. I call it "giddyup." And so, because for him, it's, "Come on, giddyup. Let's go!"

Jim Collison 10:33

Yeah, yeah, no, that's great. How often do you think that -- we're going to get to the story of both his cancer and the stroke here in just a second. But today, how often do you guys think it's referenced in conversations that you have? Is it a weekly? Do you think every day something comes up? But just as you think, because you're so well versed in it, what do you think? How often do you guys reference back to something?

Dawn Landry 10:59

I, because right now, we're in this kind of, it's a "rinse and repeat," our pandemic normal.

Jim Collison 11:06

Yeah.

Dawn Landry 11:06

I think it's more like every month or so, or maybe even like every other week or so like, he'll do something. And I'll say, "Oh, well, that's your, you know, this or that." I'm way more -- because this is what I do for a living -- I'm way more versed at it than he is. But here's the thing that he actually came to me with is an idea that I had been pondering in my head about, about 6 or 8 weeks ago, he came to me and he said, and after the stroke, everything's kind of changed a lot. He actually said, "Hey, I wonder if my strengths are still going to be the same?" And I'm so glad that he volunteered it. Because I wonder the same thing is how, how changed are we, after a major brain event such as a stroke? And are our strengths going to be the same? And in reality, I think that his strength, it's going to be interesting to see, because he's not fully ready to do it yet. His brain is still rewiring itself. And I'll tell you a little bit more about that in a little bit. But, I think his Activator and Achiever are still there, because he wakes up every day with a purpose. And I'm convinced that that's why he's been successful in his rehabilitation throughout the stroke.

Jim Collison 12:16

Wow. Yeah. Well, you'd have to, I mean, two major health crisis. And then having, continuing to have that drive to get better. I think we know, oftentimes, the, the, the will of the patient can sometimes dictate the amount and the speed of recovery. And so I think we'll spend a little bit of time you know, doing that. You, you mentioned, I'm going to -- and I kind of want to preface this question. I'm going to show a picture for some that could be a little bit of alarming. So I want you to just to prepare yourself for that. If you need to look away, that, it's not, it's not graphic, but it for me, for a guy who has claustrophobia, I, I kind of winced at it a little bit. So I just kind of want to warn you, before we move into this. Dawn, your Top 5, OK, so we think about you became the caregiver during these two crises. That, I'm assuming that your Top 5 make you a natural for that. Is that true?

Dawn Landry 13:10

Not even close. And so if you look at my, even my Top 10, 5 of my Top 10 are in Strategic Thinking. Four of them are in Influencing, and then only 1 is in Relationship Building. I don't have anything that smells like Executing until No. 13, 14. And so and then even my Bottom 5, you know, there, that's where you'll find Harmony and Empathy and Includer and, you know, all of those kind of soft, fuzzy ones that, that have that natural caregiving kind of more element to it. Not that -- I mean, you can, you can be, I've seen very tough people have a lot of Harmony in them, too. I don't want to kind of caveat it in that kind of way.

Dawn Landry 13:49

But in terms of how I use my strengths, it is not a natural caregiver kind of mentality. But I have a strong faith and God gave me this beautiful man who has a lot of health issues. So I've had to use my crisis management skills that I learned professionally and my natural armoring, my natural strength that I had, through the experiences that I have through the strengths that I was born with overall, and all those other things to kind of get us to the other side whenever we do have those challenging situations. I don't call myself a caregiver, by the way, Jim.

Jim Collison 14:23

What, so OK, if you don't call yourself a caregiver, what would, what would you consider yourself as?

Dawn Landry 14:28

I call myself a "care coach."

Jim Collison 14:29

OK. So what's the difference? How do you see the difference there?

Dawn Landry 14:33

So the way that I, and that actually came to me while he was in during the 24 days in ICU and inpatient rehab after the stroke. So caregiver, you know, encompasses all the loving aspects, you know, everything that you would encompass in terms of a caregiver, right. But that's not all that I do. I really, it's being an advocate. It's being proactive. It's being an ambassador. It's helping, leveraging the strengths that your loved one has to really kind of rally them, to remind them of who they are. So then that way, they can get to the other side of it. Because especially when depression sets in or, you know, just the -- all the challenges. He was 100% paralyzed on his right side; couldn't even open his right eye nor speak for months after the stroke. And so care coaching is all of those things that will allow you to remind them of who they are. So then that way they can, they can kind of rehab themselves in that kind of way.

Jim Collison 15:39

Yeah, no, I think it's a great term: "care coach." I like it. It's one of those, and, and I don't know if it's, if it's for everyone. I don't think this is, I don't, you certainly didn't decide to go into care coaching. Right. It was -- do you feel like that, would that translate, Dawn? And this is just kind of off-the-cuff question. But would that translate? Do you think you could help others in this area where they're going through trauma and crisis? You wrote the book Armored; we're going to talk about that here in just a second. Does that translate? Or was it special because he was your husband?

Dawn Landry 16:12

It was definitely special because he was my husband. And I will tell you, Jim, also, it was also special because we had gone through other battles, and with each health issue that he had, I picked up tactics and techniques and procedures and processes and things like that along the way that work for him as well as that work for me. Now, the systems and the things that and the, and the thought-provoking things that, that I utilized while I was working with him can -- those techniques can be taken by other, you know, care coaches, for their loved ones to kind of help them to along the way. But am, do I want to take that on and, you know, do that for other patients? I think that's the question that you were asking?

Jim Collison 17:03

Right, could you, now could you translate that to, and help other people who are going through these kinds of crisis in this way?

Dawn Landry 17:10

Yeah, that's not really kind of where, that's not where my passion lies. My passion lies in the care coach. My passion lies in those people that feel ill-equipped, because they don't feel like they can, you know, with, with the, with the education, experience, whatever, that they have, they can, they can help their, their loved one. Right?

Jim Collison 17:36

Yeah, OK. Well, that, no, that, that helps.

Dawn Landry 17:38

I hope I answered your question.

Jim Collison 17:39

Yeah, no, no, right. Yeah. No, right on. I think there'll be some people interested in that, by the way. And so let's, let's add some pictures to this. And so, you know, as we think, and we can kind of look at this is, this is Darren kind of going through chemo at this point, right?

Dawn Landry 17:54

This is the radiation mask. Yeah.

Jim Collison 17:57

Yeah. And so he's, right, this is -- how long ago is this and what's happening here?

Dawn Landry 18:01

So this is 2009. He was diagnosed with Stage 4 head and neck cancer. They found it in his lymph nodes; they never found the primary. So he had 6 weeks of chemo where he was going every, every week, and then 7 weeks of radiation where he was going 5 days a week. And so this is the radiation mask. They basically clamp you in, and then radiate through your mouth, you know, every day for, for 7 weeks. He lost 85 pounds because of it. And so it was, it was phenomenal, in that it saved his life. He's now an 11-year cancer survivor. But it was pretty barbaric in terms of just the experience. And as you said, You can't be, it's not for the weak of heart by any means. Because you cannot be, you can't be claustrophobic to be, to have to endure something like that.

Jim Collison 18:48

That, like I, like I said, that caused a physical reaction for me when I saw that picture. I was like, Oh, my gosh, I hope that never -- but, but I think it brings to light kind of what he went through. You kind of mentioned, I think, in the book that, that the, the cancer, the cancer and surviving cancer and the cancer treatment kind of got you ready for what was coming with the stroke. And you didn't know that was coming. Can you kind of explain that?

Dawn Landry 19:13

Yeah, so here's just an example, right, and so allowing other people to help you. And so I learned that very early on in the cancer battle, when people would contact us and say, like I said before, we have a great network in Houston, some wonderful friends. Our family is all back in Louisiana. And so I had, people were reaching out to me and saying, "What can we do? How can we help?" And I was like, "Oh, we're OK, we got this. Just pray for us."

Dawn Landry 19:41

And it was actually one of, one of my oldest, my uncle's oldest friends who contacted me, cancer survivor herself, who basically said, "People aren't only asking for you; they are asking because they want to be part of the journey. Now great -- you're going to be the recipient of it, but it blesses them to be a blessing to you. And so let them be a part of your story." And that really opened it up in a different kind of way. Had I not had that experience with the cancer battle, I would not have been prepared for it when he went through stroke, when I really needed a lot of support, even more than I thought.

Dawn Landry 20:19

But here's another really good example too. One thing that I learned, and he was about halfway through the radiation. We would go once a week; you would go every day for the radiation, but once a week, you would go to your radiation oncologist appointment. And his radiation oncologist nurse, a guy named Gary, walked in one day, and he said, "Oh, you're still here." And I said, "What do you mean, I'm still here? Of course, I'm still here. Where am I, where else would I be?" And he said, "Oh, about this part in the program, the significant other is like, 'Peace out, you know, I can't handle this.'" And this is not a judge -- I'm not saying this by any judgment, Jim, but the reality was, it just not, did not even come into my mind; it didn't cross my mind.

Dawn Landry 21:01

Well, about day 3, after the stroke, he's in the bed, like I said, completely paralyzed on the right side, in ICU, it's like 2 days after Thanksgiving. And he's just crying. And I remembered what Gary had said. So I got in the bed with him and looked at him eyeball to eyeball. And I said, "I'm not going anywhere. You can't get rid of me that easily!" And I just kind of made a joke about it, because that's kind of our, the nature of our relationship. But carrying those memories is really important also, because your patient is going to need to know that you are in it with them for the long haul. And it's that constant reminder also.

Jim Collison 21:44

Yeah, it's, said so well. Let's bring up a little better of a picture, what's, I mean, right, he's smiling. Thumbs up. What's happening here?

Dawn Landry 21:52

So this is week 6 of chemo. This is before the barbaric, the masked picture. But here's the story here is that at the very start of his cancer battle, here's his Significance coming out. It was a very, it was 2009. So Facebook is fairly new at that point. And he wanted a photo diary every week of his experience. And so, you know, for me, I thought, and me of little faith at that time, because I was really concerned of, you know, Stage 4 cancer. My heart was here; I took a big gulp, pretended like I wasn't going to cry and reached into his bag, because our phones were not our cameras at the time. And reached into his bag, grabbed the camera, and he documented every week of his journey throughout the cancer fight.

Dawn Landry 22:44

Well, that became his testimony. And so he actually, informally and not for money, coached other similar cancer patients through their own battles through that documentation. And there's a picture actually of him with, holding a bottle of Myoplex. And so it's a really good example of him -- there it is. That's a Facebook post that he did of himself right after, so like I said, he lost 85 pounds. And then it's him kind of documenting his own story.

Dawn Landry 23:17

So when I actually, when he was going through the stroke battle, he couldn't document it for himself. So that's when I, again, another lesson learned that I actually took his cue. And I was documenting it all along the way, for 3 purposes. One is, like I said, we have a big family, none of them are here locally. So it was updating everyone on what was going on and, and whatnot. The other was, it was a way for me as a call for prayers as well. But then the third aspect of things is that it served as this documentation because I just knew that I knew that I knew that he is here for a reason. And that is to inspire others and to help others in their own journeys. And so that was kind of the reason why I put everything together to ultimately create the book Armored.

Jim Collison 24:10

How do you think your Top 5 played into that, as far as pulling, I mean, putting a book together is not an easy task. In the middle of crisis makes it even harder. What -- how do you think you leaned into that? Or what in you helped do that?

Dawn Landry 24:25

So I've always really, I've always had this desire to write a book, like for 20 years. And so it wasn't going to be this book, of course. You know, who knew what life was going to throw at me/us? And so, but when COVID hit last March, it was kneel across the record in terms of my consulting business; I had nothing but space and time. And so I had been writing through my, through my business, a blog post every week. Little did I know that that was preparing me. I've always loved to write, but I write for me; I didn't know that other people would enjoy and experience it. Writing that blog post really actually was preparing me to write this book. I wrote it -- she poured out of me; I call it a "she"; she has her own persona now. It's 30,000 words in 3 weeks last spring, it just, it, she just wrote herself.

Dawn Landry 25:17

And so the but the reality is, I was using the Input that I had, because how you self-publish is a whole different process -- how you design it, how all. I reached out to this network that I had to be able to make this a, make this a reality and released it on October 1 of last year. But it was leveraging every single strength that I had along the way, probably some Competition to place in there.

Jim Collison 25:45

Somebody had mentioned that in the chat room before of that Competition playing into this, right, that theme for you playing into it. Who's it written for? I mean, who are you hoping will read this?

Dawn Landry 25:58

So it's written for me. And so people like me, in terms of people that feel, that are handed a situation, whether it's a healthcare battle or it's a life challenge overall, and feel ill-equipped to handle it. And so just knowing that you have those natural strengths in you, that hard-wiring, to get to the other side, you just need to lean in to whatever it is. Look, whatever I did worked for us. I can't say it's gonna work for you. I think it's having some self-awareness about yourself and about your loved one, to be able to help like, really take that mind's eye of, OK, what's gonna work for us? And it's trying a couple things. It's still a little bit of trial and error also, right?

Jim Collison 26:44

Yeah, talk, talk, there's a question in the chat room about the name. Again, talk a little bit about the name "Armored" and how you see it in the book.

Dawn Landry 26:53

So, so Armored is just that. Like I said, it's really using your own strengths, using your experiencing, your experiences, your hard-wiring, to really kind of get rallied up for whatever the challenge is there. However, the name "Armored," it comes from Ephesians, 6:11-13, 11-18 in the Bible -- putting on the full armor of God. I have a strong faith. I'm a visual learner. And so that Bible verse more than any speaks to me. And so the inspiration for the name "Armored" actually came from Ephesians.

Jim Collison 27:29

OK, and then, when we think about unique things that you, you did during these times, like, if you were just to give some examples of how the two of you kind of harnessed the power of strengths to get through this time, can you give me just a kind of a couple examples?

Dawn Landry 27:45

Absolutely. I actually have some pictures. And so there's, there's a picture there, and you can see his strengths on it.

Jim Collison 27:52

Let me, give me a second, you keep talking and I'll bring that picture up.

Dawn Landry 27:55

And so day, so an actual day 3 in ICU after the stroke, I was driving back to the hospital 5:30 in the morning, first sleep, first full sleep since it happened. And I heard this whisper in my ear, you know, "This is not my story." And so that became this anthem for him, to tell him, this is not going to be, this, this paralysis, this not being able to, this "aphasia" is what not being able to speak is called -- the actual term is called "aphasia" -- that's not his story. So I knew that I needed to remind him of who he was. And so that's when I came home that night, printed up all these pictures of ourselves and our lives, to his Significance, to remind him of our lives.

Dawn Landry 28:45

Because you know, when you're looking at just a blank hospital wall, white hospital wall, you need some inspiration, right? So I came and I printed out all of these pictures of our lives, because we're big travelers also. And so I printed out all his Top, his Top 5 strengths. Whenever I would see his physical occupational speech therapist, I handed them a copy of his Top 5 strengths, talked about his strengths to them, about him, in terms and just kind of made them aware of it.

Dawn Landry 29:15

Then I also would document, so speaking to his Context -- he has to look back to look forward -- and so I documented the milestones of the day. So in this picture down here, the very, the very bottom of the picture, you'll see from the very first day -- so a little bit further down, Jim; there you go -- it was very rudimentary, right? So we're talking freezer [tape] so that the paint won't come off of the wall so no one would fuss at me. And then blank pieces of paper that literally would just document the smallest things.

Dawn Landry 29:47

So I mean, I captured, you know, him wiggling his finger for the first time; it was Sunday morning at 5:30 in the morning, most beautiful thing I've ever seen in my entire life. And so from that to being able to use the walker to everything else, and every week, I would go back and remind him: Look what you were doing just that long, you know, look how far you've come! Everything else. And it was feeding that Context overall so he could be proud of himself. Right?

Jim Collison 30:13

Yeah, I'd almost like to take these off the wall, put them in the plastic sheet protectors and make, a, you know, like -- did you do it that way? Yeah.

Dawn Landry 30:22

Yeah, I have it. And so because it were the the follow-up of Armored is going to be his story. Originally it was going to be a story of both of our perspectives, but he can't get to that, those feelings and those words just yet. And, but he's getting closer. He's getting much, much closer. But you know, his, his medical team asked me, "How did you do that?" About day 4 or 5, they said, "How did you do that?" And it was only then, because I was so tired. And so just, there was so much coming at me, right? I didn't even acknowledge that it was my strengths that I was using to do it. And then about day 5, when someone said, "How did you know how to do that?" I was like, "Oh, I was using my CliftonStrengths!" I was, I was, this is my Input and Individualization and Ideation in overdrive, right?

Jim Collison 31:13

I love the fact -- and I never would have thought, listen, I've been doing this a long time -- and I never would have thought of posting someone's Top 5 in their, in their hospital room to help the nurses. I mean, think about this. You have new nurses coming in all the time. You know, my son, 9 years ago, had a horrific skiing accident, spent many days in the hospital. We spent a lot of time in Denver, recovering him. And less than it, actually they thought, which was great. It was a miracle all in itself. But I never, there's, there's always new staff coming through, right. And how great that was. Do you feel like, because they rotate through, but you get to know some of them in the process, did you feel like they picked up at all on the strengths language over time?

Dawn Landry 32:01

They picked up a little, a little bit on it. They were just most impressed that we were that self-aware in terms of knowing how to motivate him. And here's the other thing about putting the pictures up because it personalized him to them. So you're right; there's a, there's a constant recycling of those folks. And so they would, the new team would walk in, and then they'd start looking all over the walls. And so they, they were like, "Where was this? And where was that? And how about that?" And so it personalized him in a different kind of way.

Dawn Landry 32:36

So here's another example, too. We were supposed to have our big Christmas party at our house. His stroke happened on the Tuesday. It happened out of nowhere, basically, which I know a lot of strokes do. We were supposed to have a big party at our house that Saturday. So we were going to have 120 people come to our house for an open house for, to celebrate Christmas. So I had been cooking and baking and everything else for weeks on end.

Dawn Landry 33:01

So I basically started to take some of those goodies, the, especially the baked goods, and I kind of rationed them out throughout the week. So then that way I would give the staff some of the, and so, and so I don't know if you watch Mrs. Maisel on Amazon Prime. But there's a show called Mrs. Maisel; she bakes this pot roast to make her husband stand out. And so, so one of my friends said, "You're so Mrs. Maisel!" And so it was kind of fun in that way, because it was just another way of getting them to remind him -- and I guess it's that Significance, right? It's leaving, me making sure that his legacy continues to stand out.

Jim Collison 33:41

Yeah, no, I think, and man, that's such a great visual picture of, you know, caregivers coming in and them having kind of a documented on the wall. I mean, it serves a bunch of different purposes, right. It's good, it's a good reminder for him. It's a good reminder for you. We did the same thing, where we wrote, we, you know, every other day, we wrote a post, an update on Facebook. I go back into those posts, I can't remember what it felt like or what -- there were moments that we forgot, you know, just in crisis, you forget those moments. And it's not like we go back and reread them all the time. But at the 5-year anniversary, and now coming up on the 10-year anniversary next year, we'll probably go back through those and read them again, and to be reminded.

Jim Collison 34:23

Now you're going to document that in the next book that you do, right. You're going to go back and use that as documentation. But what a great idea to be able to do that. There was a question from the chat room that I wanted to cover about the book. Do you think and I can't find it at the moment. But do you think, you know, certainly your faith is important to you. And, and so your faith is, is very, very prominent in the book. If there was someone who was not a Christian would, would, would you, would this book be OK for them? Is this something you could recommend for someone?

Dawn Landry 34:54

Absolutely. You know, here's the thing. It's, it's not, it's not denomination-focused, right. And so whether you call it God or you call it the universe or whatever, whatever you're kind of looking towards, it's knowing that there's another, there's a, there's a purpose at the end of the day. And so maybe that's my Belief talking because Belief is No. 12 for me. But it's knowing that there's this, there's a higher, there's a higher power overall, that is kind of the whole reason for it. And there's, there's, you know, tips and tricks that I give because it's, it is a memoir, in that it's a retrospective of our, of our story. But the book itself, actually, is also me documenting and asking coaching -- care-coaching questions to, based upon the lessons learned that I've learned throughout the process.

Dawn Landry 35:47

And some of it is very tactical, like, do you have a central repository -- if you have a loved one that has a lot of, a lot of medical issues, do you have that all documented out in one place? If you don't, you can go to my website, and I've created a graphic, a male and a female graphic. So then that way, you can document it all in one place, including their medications, because it's something that, on demand -- because, as you can imagine, my 50-year-old husband has a lot of health issues and a lot of medications. And so I need a one-sheeter just to kind of describe it. I didn't have that before. So now I have it, and it's free and available to anyone who wants to just download it.

Jim Collison 36:22

Where would they go, Dawn, what's the, what's the website?

Dawn Landry 36:24

It's dawnflandry.com. So "F" is my, Fontenot is my middle name. So Dawn, and it's "dawnflandry."

Jim Collison 36:32

OK, all one word on that, and they can download that from there. One more great picture we want to show before we actually talk about the process of writing a book. But tell, tell us a little bit about this, this picture.

Dawn Landry 36:42

That picture right there is at the end of his cancer battle. And so after 85, after 85 pounds, and a lot of -- he was marinate, he is in full marination mode after all of that; we had not heard yet that he was cancer-free. But he has, he also has a big faith. You know, I asked him last year when he could get to some of the emotions, I said, "Is it your faith in God that's gotten you on to the other side of this?" And he said, "No, it's my faith in me." And I thought that that was incredible. He, he has this will and this determination to not give up that I quite honestly, Jim, I don't know if I would have the same amount of, after all of the different things that have happened to him, I don't know if I have that same gumption. But he really does.

Jim Collison 37:33

Yeah, I love the fact that you recognize not all, because of the stroke, not, the brain is not functioning to its full capacity at this point. Things are, things are happening and changing. Give us a quick, like where is he today? I mean, how's he doing? How are things today? How's it coming along?

Dawn Landry 37:51

I appreciate you asking. He is so good. It's like, Oh, what a difference a year can make! I actually told him I said the world stopped because of the pandemic to, for you to incubate. And then here you are! And so he went through a lot of speech and physical therapy and, and occupational therapy all through last year. And speech-wise, he's getting there. You can't get to all the technical terms. But he can get around; he can drive now. He's regained all of his, the physical, you know, I would say probably is like 80-85%.

Dawn Landry 38:25

But like I said, he wakes up every morning with a purpose. He has something that he's going to do around the house. At one point, he was walking around with a caulking gun, you know, every little nook and cranny in our 8-year-old house has been caulked. And so, and so he, he has to have, his Achiever has to have something to check off for the day. And that is so inspiring to me. You know, someone asked me, they said, "Well, how can you stay so positive in the middle of all this?" I'm like, "Well, if he's not moping, what do I have to mope about, right?"

Jim Collison 38:58

Yeah, well, right. It's not easy to -- listen, that's easy to say; not always easy to do, right? Anything else you'd add, from an experience? We're gonna, Iwant to talk a little bit about writing a book. Because I think, OK, not only did you go through this crisis, but you kind of wrote a book in the crisis. And for coaches a lot, a lot of, a lot of folks feel they have a book in them that just needs to come out. But before we move to that, anything else you'd add or anything else I missed that you'd want to share with our community?

Dawn Landry 39:26

Just one additional thing, and you referenced it a little bit ago, in that I don't have a lot of Empathy-Harmony, any, anyway high up. And the reality is, at some points, the challenge when you are a care coach to do that is that oftentimes, that's what we need the most is to give ourselves the Empathy and the Harmony that we need to kind of get through and understand. I have what I call the, the drill sergeant. And she sits on my shoulder. She's No. 1 Command. And she's like, "What is wrong with you? You should be able to do this, this, this and this."

Dawn Landry 40:01

Well, after we were spit out the other side of the stroke last January, she was in full force, and I was not being nice to myself in my head. And I had to create that awareness about, OK, I need to give myself some grace. Because what we went through is quite a bit; it's a lot. And so trying to just assume that I could go back to working again is not, it was not a reality. So it's making sure that even though I didn't have the Empathy-Harmony up, you know, high, I needed to point that and figure it out and point it in my own direction.

Jim Collison 40:35

Yeah, I think that's good, that's good advice. And by the way, I think we need to come at that, I think, to your point, individually in that, just we have to kind of look at OK, here kind of have to step outside of ourselves for a minute and be like, OK, have to stop feeling sorry for myself for a second here. Or, maybe in your case, a little too much intentionality, or a little too much drive, and say I need to, I need to back down a little, I need to back down a little bit.

Jim Collison 41:04

So I think great advice -- from, from time to time, we all need to take a step back, take a deep breath, do a little, maybe a little mindfulness and get a grip. Like, OK, what's really important here? What are we really, what are we really trying to do here? And then assess the situation and continue to move forward. Certainly, you were a published author before all of this, right? So this was a pretty easy process for you, going through -- No? You say, "No, no." So tell me a little bit about the process then of putting, of putting, putting "her" [the book] together.

Dawn Landry 41:35

So I leveraged my network. I, through my network, I had someone who is a book coach that I took a seminar last April. Create date, she had her own process. So I let, you know, I just used the quiet space to be able to do it. I don't, I look back on it now and I'm like, I don't know how I accomplished that. You know, it's, it's kind of amazing how it all, how it all kind of came together. But in so doing, I was, you know, I just, I just knew that other people could benefit from the experience, from the tactical things that I had learned along the way.

Dawn Landry 42:13

And especially when, whether -- let's face it, whether you're dealing with a pandemic or not, we are dealing with an aging population. And so whether we have a health challenge right now with one of our loved ones or not, you know, whether it's a, it's a aging parent or a spouse, or in some cases, unfortunately, like in your case, Jim, it's a child that has an accident, that we need to have some of those documents, have ourselves mentally prepared for it as well.

Dawn Landry 42:40

And so when I created her, I, you know, one thing that you do along the way is you ask for advance testimonials. So here's where my Input really came in. So I dreamt really big. And to my surprise, I reached out to Jim Clifton, you know, Chairman and CEO of Gallup, and he responded. And so he and his chief of staff, Christine, read, read her in a very early form and they said, Yeah, we're gonna, we're gonna give you a testimonial. And I'm so, I'm so thankful. I am so thankful for that early vote of confidence. And so that's kind of how, has gotten me here to be a Gallup-licensed partner now, which I'm very proud of.

Jim Collison 43:24

You submitted that to us for review. And speaking of that, because that came a little later in the process, as we think about the things you know now that you wish you would have known -- now, I don't, I don't see you as a person with regrets. Like, I think you drive forward. And if you missed it, you missed it. If you miss the exit, there's going to be a party at the next one. So, but if you think about that for a second, and you think, OK, what would I do different on this? Or what do I wish I could have done in a more maximized way, what do you think you'd say? Any, any lessons learned there that you might pass on to others who are thinking about writing a book?

Dawn Landry 43:59

Well, get yourself a great team, right? That's the thing. That's the No. 1 aspect -- try not, you can't do this by yourself. And so it's not that -- I have a great team, so it's not, that's definitely not one of the regrets. Probably a little bit more preparation in terms of the timing. I just felt so called to get this book out. Probably I don't know if getting it out in the middle of a pandemic is the thing that I would advise in the future, you know. Because of the timing-wise, but I just felt so called to really publish it and, and release it and everything else. I'm, I'm a firm believer that things happen at the time that they need to happen. And, and then everything kind of flows in that, in that way, shape or form.

Jim Collison 44:43

Yeah, yeah. Well, OK. But you did it. It's out. It's done. What kind of feedback are you getting on it? Certainly as folks, you're getting, it's out there, right. Folks are reading it. What kind of, what kind of stories are you hearing back?

Dawn Landry 44:55

Everything's been very, extremely positive. So this is, I told you, when we were doing some of the early prep, I've done many podcasts for Armored. But I was so excited to do this podcast because I was able to, I was able to talk about strengths specifically in it. And I didn't have to explain the terminology to you or to your audience. So have had an opportunity to, you know, get a lot of press, both in the U.S. as well as globally. You know, reached bestseller status within the first month; I've sold over 1,000 copies of the book so far, and just continuing to identify new, new opportunities.

Dawn Landry 45:34

In fact, one of the other Gallup-licensed partners, your Richard Sterry, and Releasing Strengths, the Cascade product, he was going through his own challenging, challenging time with a loved one. He read Armored, and then he contacted me, and we've collaborated on a new worksheet for the cascade product that just released last week. And so it's been a tremendous collaboration. So it's just us partnering to continue the strengths movement.

Jim Collison 46:02

Yeah, that's great to hear. I always love to see when the community, you know, works together to do these kinds of things. So great on that. OK. Let me ask you, very seriously, How are you? Like, this is like, OK, you've put on a good shine on this. Like, this is great. Everything's awesome. Is it? How are you? I mean, how are you doing here? You still have a ways to go, this is not, this is, you're not, we're not celebrating victory here at this point, right? You've got recovery still to do, and you're still in the midst of this, and we're just coming out of the pandemic. How are you doing?

Dawn Landry 46:35

I'm good. I am really good. You know, look, the reality is, we all have challenging things that come with us. You know, when, when Darren was in ICU the second time, I had a girlfriend that came and visited us. And she said, she was telling me -- because we were visiting in the, in the lobby area -- and she said, she was telling me of some issue that she had, she, and then she stopped herself. And she said, "Oh, but it's nowhere near as bad as what you're going through." And I said, "No, pain is pain." It doesn't matter what if -- my pain doesn't have to be worse or better than your pain does. Pain is pain at the end of the day, and we just have to be there for each other however we can be.

Dawn Landry 47:16

And I'm surrounded by some really wonderful people that I have in my life that I'm close to that really help me in terms of rallying and getting, getting to, to where we need to be. But you know, it's kind of owning where you are and being grateful for what you've been through. And we went through 2020 and have, you know, I'm so thankful. That's my word for 2021 is "grateful."

Jim Collison 47:40

So, but any any moments in there -- I mean, certainly there have been some "I want to give up" moments. Have you, have you struggled with that at all?

Dawn Landry 47:49

No, I, I really don't. And so, but here's the thing, Jim. The reality is my husband is the, he's the thermostat for how things are. And, and I mean, and I'm not, I didn't, like I didn't smoke anything before we got on the call.

Jim Collison 48:06

No judgment if you did, by the way!

Dawn Landry 48:08

Inhale helium or anything else. But I am so thankful because he, his perspective is one that's so positive that it does allow me to remain positive. But here's the other thing as well. I don't, I don't deal with the tough stuff until later. And I'm not, I'm not, I'm not saying that that's a good thing. But say, for instance, in the cancer battle, I pushed us all the way through. And then he found out that February that he was cancer-free. So it was like, "OK, great! We're going to Hawaii for our anniversary!" So our anniversary is in May. And he's like, "Can we afford it?" I'm like, "I don't care. We're gonna put it on the credit card and figure it out later."

Dawn Landry 48:52

So here we are, we get off the plane, we're taking a shuttle to the hotel because we're going to get on a cruise ship the next day to take a cruise of the Hawaiian Islands. And the ukulele music comes on, "Somewhere Over the Rainbow," and I start crying. It's like I had been holding my breath for 7 months. And it wasn't one of those pretty cries either; it was like an ugly-snot cry. And so, and all of the people on the bus, because no one had any idea. And poor Darren, he's just sitting there. He has like no, he has no idea what caused it. And I'm just doing this, and all these people on the bus are looking at him like, What did you do? And he's, he's just shrugging too. And all I could say was I, that's just how I process. I get to the other side and then I allow it. So you saying earlier about reading those posts back from your son's experience. I haven't even, I haven't fully done that yet.

Jim Collison 49:49

Oh boy. All right. You got, you've got some, you got some work ahead of you. By the way I'm very similar, is that in crisis, firefight, all adrenaline -- I think we're probably wired very similar in this -- and you're in the moment. And you're, you, like, there's not time to be emotional; we got to get through this, right. And then at the end, there's a moment where you just, you're like, it, all the emotion comes back. I think the key is to let that -- I think some people try to suppress that. Like, oh, I can't have these emotions. And you just need to have the snotty cry kind of thing, right? Just let it out. Right? Who cares? Like, you're never gonna see those people again. Right? You're never gonna see them. So just, so, so just let it out. I think that is, I think that's super key in what you did.

Jim Collison 50:36

So you may need to allow yourself to have some more moments like that, especially going into I think, though, that you know that, right. You know those are gonna come; you just kind of let them be. Let them be what they are. Look forward to them in some way. I, it took me a long time to be OK with sad emotions. But there are moments -- I tell people all the time, it's OK to be sad. Like, be sad. It's OK. Like, that's, that's an OK emotion. So I think it's just difficult. You've been through a lot; give yourself some time to do that. OK. So you mentioned, you alluded to this earlier of Darren taking CliftonStrengths again. Are, do you think, like, his, his brain's a little different now.

Dawn Landry 51:15

Oh, it's totally different.

Jim Collison 51:16

Is he, no, is this your idea? Is this his idea? Like, when will you know? Like, how's that gonna work?

Dawn Landry 51:26

You know, I had been thinking about it for about, I would say, 3 or 4 months; definitely the latter part of last year. And then about 6 weeks -- and I didn't tell him; I just wanted, like everything, I just let him come to it. And, and then he's, and oftentimes, we're exactly on the same page. And so one day, about 6 weeks ago, he said, "Hey, I wonder if my strengths are the same?" And he does keep them up in his office in our, in our house. And he said, "I wonder if I, my strengths are the same." And I said, I was curious about the same thing. And he said, "Do you think I should take it again?" And I said, "I absolutely do. But I don't think that that time is --" I don't think he's ready quite yet to, because you have to be willing, you know, to be able to sit and concentrate for quite a bit of time and really kind of even get to some emotions. And so I would say probably in another 6 months or so. I don't know if you guys at Gallup have ever looked at that, or researched that or in any other --

Jim Collison 52:22

There's been, a there's been a little; I wouldn't say we're, we have any definitive on when or how or some of those kinds of things. That's, you know, the brain is a pretty complicated, complex machine. Right. And that takes a lot, that kind of medical research of knowing where and when and why, that's well beyond what we can do in our work, right. That's with that. So it's a little, it's kind of, we would say "out of scope"; in the software world, we'd say that's kind of out of scope.

Jim Collison 52:49

But I think a really interesting case study for him. Like, I mean, I think this is one that you can kind of document and say, and the results will be super interesting. And I don't think -- they're gonna change. I mean, I, listen, healthy people taking the CliftonStrengths assessment a month apart that they've been healthy -- the chances of getting all 177 paired questions exactly the same twice, the odds of that are pretty, pretty astronomical.

Jim Collison 53:15

OK, that being said with it, I think the discussion that comes out of it is what's more important than anything else. In other words, I'm taking the assessment again. You know, a lot of things have happened to him. And so it's, it's, it, you know, it's most likely going to be, well, it'll be interesting. I don't know what it's going to be. We'll have to, you'll have to report back. But the coaching conversations that then begin with him and to say, "OK, how are you, OK, now that we know these things, what do you think? Like, how do you feel? What does this mean?" What -- and then, and then the journey afterwards, right? How does that really play in? What is he seeing now? What's his brain doing? Like I think that's super interesting. I think you have a nice little personal case study going on here that is going to be, that's going to be interesting to say the least as you go forward. You're going to, you mentioned, you're going to write something else, right? You got to know, what's -- so what else is coming? What are you going to do?

Dawn Landry 54:11

Oh, his book is coming. But then I also have some, so business development is what I do for a living. And so I have, now that I've written one book, I've proven to myself that I can do it. So I have a couple technical business development books in me also. So -- but I want to go, can I, can I go back to the comment that we had before you asked that question?

Dawn Landry 54:31

So some fantastic advice that I got last January. So he's finished with all the therapy and everything in the hospital. We're back home. The whole fact that, you know, it's, it's a whole sidebar in terms of they handed me this 215 pound man and I'm like, Here I am, I'm, I just, I just hope I can care for him. Right. And so that, that began the other piece of the process in terms of leveraging all of my organizational skills to be able to do that. But that's a total sidebar.

Dawn Landry 54:59

I actually had an opportunity through my network -- one of the folks that I've worked with in the past volunteered his mom, who is a retired speech therapist. And so one Saturday morning, we talked and so I gave her all of his medical history, his background, his age, everything else. And I said, "So when are we going to get there?" And she said, "What do you mean?" And I said, "Well, you know, we are get-'er-done kind of people. When are we going to get there?" And so she said, "Honey," she said, "I'm going to tell you something right now." She said, "You are looking at it all wrong." And it made me stop. And she said, "If you think that he is going to be the person that he was before the stroke, then you are setting yourself up for failure." She said, "You aren't who you were before his stroke. So that's not fair."

Dawn Landry 55:50

And this is my, in my mind, this is what I heard; I don't think she said it exactly like this, but this is how I captured it. "Can you give him the freedom to be who he's going to be next?" And that's in alignment with the conversation. That blew it wide open for me, Jim. Because we both have the freedom to be who we're going to be next and create it. So I got off the phone with her, I'm like, "You can be whoever you want to be next." And he was like, "What does that even mean? And where did that come from?" But in that process, it's allowed his Activator to throttle back, his Achiever to throttle back a little bit -- to let himself heal it like he didn't have some deadline that was impending that he needed to work towards. That we could just kind of slowly get there overall, and let it take however much time it takes. And that really was a -- it's amazing and beautiful.

Jim Collison 56:42

I think that's just a great statement. Kind of a great way to kind of wrap this time that we have to -- we, listen, you and I could talk about this all day. I think I had you listen to Traci, right, Traci McCausland? Because she came in; she's just joining us. She said, "I can't wait to listen to this one back." Anything that you, OK, going through that, right; this is why we record these things, just so I can recommend them to others. Anything, as you were listening to Traci's cancer story, was there anything out of that or anything you remember out of that, that you'd, you'd, you'd push forward to folks?

Dawn Landry 57:13

I just enjoyed hearing her story and hearing the perspective of the patient. You know, that's the thing that I have. I can't say that I have cancer. I can't say that I have a stroke. I walked the walk as closely to someone in, on this planet, but no one has ever told me I have cancer. So I can't, I can try to empathize and get to those feelings. But I really don't know what it is. And so Traci's podcast actually gives you the perspective, from the patient aspect in terms of using your strengths in that way. And I really enjoyed it.

Jim Collison 57:46

I did as well. I think I might have cried on that one. I'm just, I'm just gonna be honest. That was, it was, it was quite moving. So Traci, thanks for joining us. But I love to hear these stories. And we don't get to do them very often. But I love, I love to hear these. So, so Dawn, thank you for taking a moment. Why don't we take a second and, again, how do folks, what's the best way for folks to get this -- not just in the United States, but as we think globally, what's the best way for them to be able to get this?

Dawn Landry 58:10

So Amazon, it's on Amazon, right? But then it's also offered in other channels. So if you're a Barnes and Noble, or you're a Walmart or all .com, it's available out there. And then on my website, also dawnflandry.com. It's available there as well.

Jim Collison 58:26

All right, sounds good.

Dawn Landry 58:28

Thank you, Jim. I've really enjoyed this.

Jim Collison 58:29

You're, likewise. I appreciate doing it. You hang tight for me one second. Let's remind anybody listening live and the recorded version, get access to all the resources we have available around this. Maybe you don't, you've never thought of CliftonStrengths as a tool you could use in this. And then this could be a moment for you to give it a try. So head out to gallup.com/cliftonstrengths. Lots of information around that out there -- almost too much, but it's out there and available for you. If you're interested in coaching, master coaching, or you want to become a Gallup-Certified Strengths Coach, we do that as well. You can send us an email: coaching@gallup.com. And we'd love to walk you through that process. If you, the first time you're listening to this, and you're like, "Oh, I want to hear more of this!" Or How do I find, how do I find Traci's time that she was on? Well, if you want to see what's coming up in the future, go to gallup.com -- or go to gallup.eventbrite.com. That's everything that's in the future. And then of course, that site that I said before, gallup.com/cliftonstrengths. If you go to the Resources tab and go to Webcasts, they're all there. And the search actually works. So you can give it a, give it a try out there as well. And of course, if you have any questions on a specific one, you can always contact me. Don't forget, you can find us on any social platform just by searching for "CliftonStrengths." And if you're thinking about joining us for our summer Summit, coming up June -- well, it's summer in the Northern Hemisphere -- June 8 and 9, gallupatwork.com. And Certified Coaches, you get a discount on that as well. We'd love to have you come out and join us. Thanks for joining us today. I appreciate it. Because we went a little bit long, we won't do a postshow. If you're listening live, thanks for coming out today. Again, Dawn, again, thanks for joining us. With that, we'll say, Goodbye, everybody.

Dawn F. Landry's Top 5 CliftonStrengths are Input, Competition, Significance, Ideation and Individualization.